Author Topic: DNA never lies...?!  (Read 2674 times)

Sriram

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DNA never lies...?!
« on: November 03, 2015, 01:26:30 PM »
Hi everyone,

Here is an article about DNA transfer and its implications for forensic investigations.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151028133944.htm

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If your DNA is found on a weapon or at a crime scene, does that make you guilty?

A judge or jury might think so, but a new study from the University of Indianapolis shows that secondary transfer of human DNA through intermediary contact is far more common than previously thought, a finding that could have serious repercussions for medical science and the criminal justice system.

..advances in the field now make it possible to produce a complete genetic profile of a suspect from just a few cells left behind -- so-called "touch DNA." The emerging concern, long considered a theoretical risk but only now systematically confirmed by the UIndy study, is that the presence of those cells does not prove that the person actually visited the scene or directly touched the object in question. The DNA easily could have been transferred by other means.

The experiment designed by Cale and Earll asked pairs of volunteers to shake hands for two minutes, after which they handled knives that were later swabbed for DNA samples. In 85 percent of the cases, DNA from the person who did not directly touch the knife was transferred in sufficient quantity to produce a profile. In one-fifth of the samples, that person was identified as the main or only contributor of DNA to the potential weapon, despite never having touched it.

"It's scary," said Cale, who is continuing her master's thesis project at UIndy. "Analysts need to be aware that this can happen, and they need to be able to go into court and effectively present this evidence. They need to school the jury and the judge that there are other explanations for this DNA to be there."

In a 2013 California case, a man was arrested and held for months on a murder charge after his DNA was found on a homicide victim. The charges were dropped after it was determined that the DNA probably was transferred to the victim by paramedics who had come into contact with each of them on separate emergency runs.

...sometimes the only evidence they have in a case is DNA, and this emphasizes that we need to interpret the entirety of a case," said Latham, known internationally for her work as a forensic anthropologist. "Even everyday people on a jury need to understand that DNA is not this magic bullet, that it needs to be interpreted just like any piece of evidence."

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Cheers.

Sriram

BeRational

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2015, 01:38:35 PM »
Hi everyone,

Here is an article about DNA transfer and its implications for forensic investigations.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151028133944.htm

*********************

If your DNA is found on a weapon or at a crime scene, does that make you guilty?

A judge or jury might think so, but a new study from the University of Indianapolis shows that secondary transfer of human DNA through intermediary contact is far more common than previously thought, a finding that could have serious repercussions for medical science and the criminal justice system.

..advances in the field now make it possible to produce a complete genetic profile of a suspect from just a few cells left behind -- so-called "touch DNA." The emerging concern, long considered a theoretical risk but only now systematically confirmed by the UIndy study, is that the presence of those cells does not prove that the person actually visited the scene or directly touched the object in question. The DNA easily could have been transferred by other means.

The experiment designed by Cale and Earll asked pairs of volunteers to shake hands for two minutes, after which they handled knives that were later swabbed for DNA samples. In 85 percent of the cases, DNA from the person who did not directly touch the knife was transferred in sufficient quantity to produce a profile. In one-fifth of the samples, that person was identified as the main or only contributor of DNA to the potential weapon, despite never having touched it.

"It's scary," said Cale, who is continuing her master's thesis project at UIndy. "Analysts need to be aware that this can happen, and they need to be able to go into court and effectively present this evidence. They need to school the jury and the judge that there are other explanations for this DNA to be there."

In a 2013 California case, a man was arrested and held for months on a murder charge after his DNA was found on a homicide victim. The charges were dropped after it was determined that the DNA probably was transferred to the victim by paramedics who had come into contact with each of them on separate emergency runs.

...sometimes the only evidence they have in a case is DNA, and this emphasizes that we need to interpret the entirety of a case," said Latham, known internationally for her work as a forensic anthropologist. "Even everyday people on a jury need to understand that DNA is not this magic bullet, that it needs to be interpreted just like any piece of evidence."

**********************

Cheers.

Sriram

This is not a case of DNA lying.

Of course just because your DNA is found somewhere does not mean you did the crime.
It does not mean you were ever there.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Outrider

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2015, 01:39:44 PM »
This raises concerns to an extent for those cases where random sweeps pick up people, but if you're identified by an investigation in order to have your DNA checked against the scene then what they're confirming is that you are linked to the scene.

It's an interesting finding, though - certainly undermines any attempt to keep a bank of DNA on file to just check through in the event of an incident.

O.
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Hope

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 02:58:57 PM »
I'm surprised that evidence of its fallibility hadn't already been published.  I thought it was an accepted fact.  By the way, am I right in thinking that 'paternity' tests can be questioned - albeit for somewhat different reasons, such having an identical sibling?
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BeRational

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2015, 03:06:41 PM »
I'm surprised that evidence of its fallibility hadn't already been published.  I thought it was an accepted fact.  By the way, am I right in thinking that 'paternity' tests can be questioned - albeit for somewhat different reasons, such having an identical sibling?

I would have thought this was obvious.

I read somewhere that most bank notes have traces of cocaine on them, not because they have been used to snort cocaine, but that they had been in contact with notes that had, in automatic counters for example.

The DNA is solid, if it says it is your DNA, then it is very certain that it is your DNA.

An explanation as to why it was found where it was will be the thing to discuss, not that it is your DNA.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Udayana

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2015, 04:01:03 PM »
In the UK it would be very difficult to obtain a conviction on DNA match alone as it would normally be seen as circumstantial evidence. In fact I believe charges cannot be brought without appropriate additional supporting evidence.

I was strongly against the DNA database plans, however, in retrospect, I think a voluntary DNA database would be a huge help in combating crime and should be established.

Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Shaker

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2015, 06:18:50 PM »
I was strongly against the DNA database plans, however, in retrospect, I think a voluntary DNA database would be a huge help in combating crime and should be established.
On its face a purely voluntary database would be something I'd have no issue with, save for the fact that it would provide ammunition for the tedious but numerous nothing-to-hide-nothing-to-fear brigade ("If you're not on it, why not?") and I suspect function creep would almost guarantee that it wouldn't remain voluntary for tremendously long
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ippy

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2015, 07:15:45 PM »
I was strongly against the DNA database plans, however, in retrospect, I think a voluntary DNA database would be a huge help in combating crime and should be established.
On its face a purely voluntary database would be something I'd have no issue with, save for the fact that it would provide ammunition for the tedious but numerous nothing-to-hide-nothing-to-fear brigade ("If you're not on it, why not?") and I suspect function creep would almost guarantee that it wouldn't remain voluntary for tremendously long
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I'm certain the insurance companies would have reason to be very interested in DNA databases.

ippy
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 02:08:23 PM by ippy »

Outrider

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2015, 07:25:25 PM »
I was strongly against the DNA database plans, however, in retrospect, I think a voluntary DNA database would be a huge help in combating crime and should be established.
On its face a purely voluntary database would be something I'd have no issue with, save for the fact that it would provide ammunition for the tedious but numerous nothing-to-hide-nothing-to-fear brigade ("If you're not on it, why not?") and I suspect function creep would almost guarantee that it wouldn't remain voluntary for tremendously long

I'm certain the insurance companies would have reason to be very interested in DND databases.

ippy

Sorry Ippy, I know it's a typo, and I know it's childish, but I have an image now of an insurance assessor leafing through the Monstrous Compendium trying to compare the level of your insurance against the threat level of a Tarrasque!  ;D

O.
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Udayana

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Re: DNA never lies...?!
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2015, 08:13:23 PM »
I suppose there is the potential danger of function creep and data being provided by government to insurance companies for money. But there is the problem with most of new undertakings ... exact terms and conditions are not spelled out simply, or even designed to be transparent or comprehensible. From simple power or telephone service provision to TTIP, to the use of new technologies such as GM etc .. so the only discussion is at the most superficial, often inane, level.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now