Offerings

[Shaker]

Real, practical help for real things that actually exist, then - not offerings to gods. Exactly as I already said.

Precisely, Shaker, because God is not a remote entity but a being who is intimately involved in everyday life.

Evidence needed.

[Samuel]

Is there something more nuanced going on widen we regard something as an offering?

I mean, when does a donation become an offering? My initial thought is that it is more about the effect on the giver if it's an offering. Perhaps a token gesture of sacrifice / giving, for no other reason than it is good practice?

[Rhiannon]

Yes, I agree - a donation can be an offering, but not necessarily so, and there are other ways to offer.

For the big festivals at the parish church in my village, the women - yes, it is still the women - turn out en masse and clean, scrub and polish, and fill the church with flowers. That is an offering.

[BashfulAnthony]

Yes, I agree - a donation can be an offering, but not necessarily so, and there are other ways to offer.

For the big festivals at the parish church in my village, the women - yes, it is still the women - turn out en masse and clean, scrub and polish, and fill the church with flowers. That is an offering.

That's superb;  and when they ought to be at home, in the kitchen.   Just joking!!   

[ippy]

Real, practical help for real things that actually exist, then - not offerings to gods. Exactly as I already said.

Precisely, Shaker, because God is not a remote entity but a being who is intimately involved in everyday life.  So, monies in the offering are a means of thanking God for his generosity to us in so many ways - life, health, education, forgiveness, roof over one's head, etc., and given so that those blessings can be shared with others who don't necessarily share in those in the same way as we do.  It isn't either/or; its both/and.

You're off with the never has been and very doubtful it ever will be, again, twist that how you like Hope, you do know exactly what is meant.

ippy

[jeremyp]

So, monies in the offering are a means of thanking God for his generosity to us in so many ways - life, health, education, forgiveness, roof over one's head

God never gave me any of those thing. Why should I thank him?

[Hope]

God never gave me any of those thing. ...

Is your evidence for this statement incontovertible?

[Hope]

You're off with the never has been and very doubtful it ever will be, again, twist that how you like Hope, you do know exactly what is meant.

ippy

I'm learning from you, ippy

and of course I 'know exactly what is meant', which is why I disagreed with it and gave my understanding.

[jeremyp]

God never gave me any of those thing. ...

Is your evidence for this statement incontovertible?

Of course it is.

[Bubbles]

One of the simplest offerings, that actually works, is spreading manure around the plants you want to flourish and looking after them.

It's a sort of offering 

As is tending any garden, even time can be an offering.

I found this link and thought it interesting. 

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usoh&c=earth&id=14028

[Shaker]

One of the simplest offerings, that actually works, is spreading manure around the plants you want to flourish and looking after them.

Exactly - my uncle used to put tons of well-rotted manure on his rhubarb.

Which I always found peculiar, as I prefer custard.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

One of the simplest offerings, that actually works, is spreading manure around the plants you want to flourish and looking after them.

Exactly - my uncle used to put tons of well-rotted manure on his rhubarb.

Which I always found peculiar, as I prefer custard.

I like this type of comment.

[Bubbles]

One of the simplest offerings, that actually works, is spreading manure around the plants you want to flourish and looking after them.

Exactly - my uncle used to put tons of well-rotted manure on his rhubarb.

Which I always found peculiar, as I prefer custard.

  

[Jack Knave]

Do offerings matter, and is there any place for them for non-theists?

No. They are there to appease the gods. There are no gods. It stems from the primitive mind set of fear of them, or trying to keep in their good books; kind of like being accepted into the 'spiritual' clan. Children do this with their parents to reassure their acceptance in the family. Pack animals do a similar thing.

As a Pagan I disagree.

We have nothing to fear from our deities. They do not threaten us with any kind of punishment for anything we do,

The only "punishment" that most pagans recognise is karma and that is not inflicted by the deities.

I'm not sure how you pagans see or understand your gods?

Don't they or haven't they set how things will be in this universe thereby setting the tone in which you function? Therefore, they govern how things proceed and as such what you have to deal with in your life or existence in this world and the next, or whatever way you pagans perceive things.

[ippy]

One of the simplest offerings, that actually works, is spreading manure around the plants you want to flourish and looking after them.

It's a sort of offering 

As is tending any garden, even time can be an offering.

I found this link and thought it interesting. 

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usoh&c=earth&id=14028

Rose, I have a hell of a job saying manure.

ippy

[Jack Knave]

Real, practical help for real things that actually exist, then - not offerings to gods. Exactly as I already said.

Precisely, Shaker, because God is not a remote entity but a being who is intimately involved in everyday life.  So, monies in the offering are a means of thanking God for his generosity to us in so many ways - life, health, education, forgiveness, roof over one's head, etc., and given so that those blessings can be shared with others who don't necessarily share in those in the same way as we do.  It isn't either/or; its both/and.

So what about those who don't have these things, does God hate them?

So your equation is if you are rich then God loves you.

[ippy]

You're off with the never has been and very doubtful it ever will be, again, twist that how you like Hope, you do know exactly what is meant.

ippy

I'm learning from you, ippy

and of course I 'know exactly what is meant', which is why I disagreed with it and gave my understanding.

Nothing so much about your understanding, as you know you were begging for proof/evidence that there isn't a he, she or it magic maker in the sky, now thats for you to establish that there is; well neither you nor anyone else has managed to prove this whatever it is that you refer to as god actually exists, the long, long wait.

ippy 

[Owlswing]

Do offerings matter, and is there any place for them for non-theists?

No. They are there to appease the gods. There are no gods. It stems from the primitive mind set of fear of them, or trying to keep in their good books; kind of like being accepted into the 'spiritual' clan. Children do this with their parents to reassure their acceptance in the family. Pack animals do a similar thing.

As a Pagan I disagree.

We have nothing to fear from our deities. They do not threaten us with any kind of punishment for anything we do,

The only "punishment" that most pagans recognise is karma and that is not inflicted by the deities.

I'm not sure how you pagans see or understand your gods?

Don't they or haven't they set how things will be in this universe thereby setting the tone in which you function? Therefore, they govern how things proceed and as such what you have to deal with in your life or existence in this world and the next, or whatever way you pagans perceive things.

How have they set how things will be in this universe?

I have read nothing to show that they have done so. The deities of my Pagan path are those who have an affinity to the various natural things in the world, animals, weather, day and night etc.

I do not, and do not know any Pagan who does, think or believe that the Pagan deities created this world or the universe. Who did? I haven't a clue, but what I do know is that I find the idea of the whole kit and caboodle being created in six days by one entity highly unlikely.

OK - my beliefs have been dismissed as simplistic, they may well be, but they are far more logical to me than those of Christianity.

[Hope]

Nothing so much about your understanding, as you know you were begging for proof/evidence that there isn't a he, she or it magic maker in the sky, now thats for you to establish that there is; well neither you nor anyone else has managed to prove this whatever it is that you refer to as god actually exists, the long, long wait.

ippy

Begging for it because so many people, yourself included, have made categorical assertions to that effect, and wanted to know whether they had any evidence to support those assertions.  If they haven't, it seems a bit hypocritical of them, in view of the accusations they lay against some here.

[ippy]

Nothing so much about your understanding, as you know you were begging for proof/evidence that there isn't a he, she or it magic maker in the sky, now thats for you to establish that there is; well neither you nor anyone else has managed to prove this whatever it is that you refer to as god actually exists, the long, long wait.

ippy

Begging for it because so many people, yourself included, have made categorical assertions to that effect, and wanted to know whether they had any evidence to support those assertions.  If they haven't, it seems a bit hypocritical of them, in view of the accusations they lay against some here.

Like most sensible people I don't believe in the existance of Unicorns, nor do I expect Unicornists to expect me to prove to them that Unicorns do not in fact exist nor would there be any point spending precious time trying to do so and unfortunatly for Unicornists, in addition to that it's a fact that there is no viable evidence to be found anywhere that would prove that Unicorns do exist.

As well as the above wouldn't you expect Hope? If someone, anyone was to find some completley incontrovertable evidence of their existance it would be one of the most spectacular news events ever; now since this has never happened nor is it likely, it's pretty safe to say that there is no such thing as a Unicorn, ditto religions.

ippy

Substitute any religion of your choice Hope, for Unicorns, as above.

[Rhiannon]

Hope makes claims for God that aren't made for unicorns.

Tbh I wouldn't have let my girls read books about Hope's god, they'd have got some very funny ideas about parenting. They liked the unicorn ones though.

[ippy]

Hope makes claims for God that aren't made for unicorns.

Tbh I wouldn't have let my girls read books about Hope's god, they'd have got some very funny ideas about parenting. They liked the unicorn ones though.

I didn't intend any offence to Unicorns or Unicornists.

I don't know that much about Unicorns but amongst the other things he claims, he persistently requests for proof of the existence of his god idea as well, I'm only trying to point out to him the futile nature of these requests of his, I just happened to use Unicorns, I could just as well have  chosen Fairies.

I can't make out why he isn't receiving, it never sinks in, well it hasn't yet.

The last post of his that I was trying to reply to, is telling me I'm making assertions, if that's so where and when was this proof of the existence of his god idea announced? I must have missed it.   

ippy

If I had chosen Star Trek would that have been Treckrilidge?
   

[BashfulAnthony]

Hope makes claims for God that aren't made for unicorns.

Tbh I wouldn't have let my girls read books about Hope's god, they'd have got some very funny ideas about parenting. They liked the unicorn ones though.

I didn't intend any offence to Unicorns or Unicornists.

I don't know that much about Unicorns but amongst the other things he claims, he persistently requests for proof of the existence of his god idea as well, I'm only trying to point out to him the futile nature of these requests of his, I just happened to use Unicorns, I could just as well have  chosen Fairies.

I can't make out why he isn't receiving, it never sinks in, well it hasn't yet.

The last post of his that I was trying to reply to, is telling me I'm making assertions, if that's so where and when was this proof of the existence of his god idea announced? I must have missed it.   

ippy

If I had chosen Star Trek would that have been Treckrilidge?

Will you never grow out of your infantile addiction to silly talk of magic and the like.  It is so very hackneyed.  Do try harder!

[ippy]

Hope makes claims for God that aren't made for unicorns.

Tbh I wouldn't have let my girls read books about Hope's god, they'd have got some very funny ideas about parenting. They liked the unicorn ones though.

I didn't intend any offence to Unicorns or Unicornists.

I don't know that much about Unicorns but amongst the other things he claims, he persistently requests for proof of the existence of his god idea as well, I'm only trying to point out to him the futile nature of these requests of his, I just happened to use Unicorns, I could just as well have  chosen Fairies.

I can't make out why he isn't receiving, it never sinks in, well it hasn't yet.

The last post of his that I was trying to reply to, is telling me I'm making assertions, if that's so where and when was this proof of the existence of his god idea announced? I must have missed it.   

ippy

If I had chosen Star Trek would that have been Treckrilidge?
 

Will you never grow out of your infantile addiction to silly talk of magic and the like.  It is so very hackneyed.  Do try harder!

You haven't B A, so why should I?

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

Hope makes claims for God that aren't made for unicorns.

Tbh I wouldn't have let my girls read books about Hope's god, they'd have got some very funny ideas about parenting. They liked the unicorn ones though.

I didn't intend any offence to Unicorns or Unicornists.

I don't know that much about Unicorns but amongst the other things he claims, he persistently requests for proof of the existence of his god idea as well, I'm only trying to point out to him the futile nature of these requests of his, I just happened to use Unicorns, I could just as well have  chosen Fairies.

I can't make out why he isn't receiving, it never sinks in, well it hasn't yet.

The last post of his that I was trying to reply to, is telling me I'm making assertions, if that's so where and when was this proof of the existence of his god idea announced? I must have missed it.   

ippy

If I had chosen Star Trek would that have been Treckrilidge?
 

Will you never grow out of your infantile addiction to silly talk of magic and the like.  It is so very hackneyed.  Do try harder!

You haven't B A, so why should I?

ippy

And please quote any post I have ever spoken in terms of unicorns and fairies and magic-makers, etc.