Cameron's EU proposals.

[BashfulAnthony]

Anybody read them yet?  They amount to nothing of any real substance;  and even less do they address the problems that "no" followers want answering.  In any event, he will never get the support of the EU countries.  I fear he is hatching a plot to attempt to hood-wink the public.  And I am convinced that even if there is a referendum, he will not let it happen, by hook or by crook!   

[Harrowby Hall]

Anybody read them yet?  They amount to nothing of any real substance;  and even less do they address the problems that "no" followers want answering.  In any event, he will never get the support of the EU countries.  I fear he is hatching a plot to attempt to hood-wink the public.  And I am convinced that even if there is a referendum, he will not let it happen, by hook or by crook!

I have heard the summary in news broadcasts.

My overwhelming response is that Cameron is a weak prime minister, who stupidly - in order to ingratiate himself with the more paleolithic elements of his parliamentary party - made a promise to hold a referendum. He is now totally under their control and rather desperately hoping the electorate will help him escape.

Another crass decision now comes to haunt him: following the Scottish referendum he had the opportunity to conduct a proper review into the constitution of the United kingdom and he chose to seek party advantage instead. It seems that the SNP has his scrotum in an iron grip over his intention to amend the Sunday trading laws.

His only qualification for leadership of the Conservative Party, when he was elected, was that his name was not Kenneth Clarke.

[BashfulAnthony]

Anybody read them yet?  They amount to nothing of any real substance;  and even less do they address the problems that "no" followers want answering.  In any event, he will never get the support of the EU countries.  I fear he is hatching a plot to attempt to hood-wink the public.  And I am convinced that even if there is a referendum, he will not let it happen, by hook or by crook!

I have heard the summary in news broadcasts.

My overwhelming response is that Cameron is a weak prime minister, who stupidly - in order to ingratiate himself with the more paleolithic elements of his parliamentary party - made a promise to hold a referendum. He is now totally under their control and rather desperately hoping the electorate will help him escape.

Another crass decision now comes to haunt him: following the Scottish referendum he had the opportunity to conduct a proper review into the constitution of the United kingdom and he chose to seek party advantage instead. It seems that the SNP has his scrotum in an iron grip over his intention to amend the Sunday trading laws.

His only qualification for leadership of the Conservative Party, when he was elected, was that his name was not Kenneth Clarke.

Whatever he says, or pledges, mean nothing.  He is a self-serving liar, and breaker of promises.  He is supported by big business, and they want to stay in the EU, mainly because they can benefit from cheap labour. I believe he intends tpo keep us in the EU whatever, even if it means breaking more promises. 

[jeremyp]

He is supported by big business, and they want to stay in the EU, mainly because they can benefit from cheap labour. 

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Being in the EU means we have the Working Time directive and a load of other employment law which drives up the cost of labour, not down.This is one of the reasons all those Tories want us out.

[BashfulAnthony]

He is supported by big business, and they want to stay in the EU, mainly because they can benefit from cheap labour. 

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Being in the EU means we have the Working Time directive and a load of other employment law which drives up the cost of labour, not down.This is one of the reasons all those Tories want us out.

That assumes the firms obey the law, and many most certainly do not.  Many do not pay the minimum wage, let alone the living wage, and many EU workers accept this because it is still more than they can earn in their own countries.  The Working Time directive is not driving up wages because it is impossible to regulate it, and it is too often abused.

[jeremyp]

He is supported by big business, and they want to stay in the EU, mainly because they can benefit from cheap labour. 

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Being in the EU means we have the Working Time directive and a load of other employment law which drives up the cost of labour, not down.This is one of the reasons all those Tories want us out.

That assumes the firms obey the law, and many most certainly do not.  Many do not pay the minimum wage, let alone the living wage, and many EU workers accept this because it is still more than they can earn in their own countries.  The Working Time directive is not driving up wages because it is impossible to regulate it, and it is too often abused.

I think that is mostly bullshit unless you can provide some citations.

[BashfulAnthony]

He is supported by big business, and they want to stay in the EU, mainly because they can benefit from cheap labour. 

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Being in the EU means we have the Working Time directive and a load of other employment law which drives up the cost of labour, not down.This is one of the reasons all those Tories want us out.

That assumes the firms obey the law, and many most certainly do not.  Many do not pay the minimum wage, let alone the living wage, and many EU workers accept this because it is still more than they can earn in their own countries.  The Working Time directive is not driving up wages because it is impossible to regulate it, and it is too often abused.

I think that is mostly bullshit unless you can provide some citations.

Oh, come on. The Government publishes lists from time to time, of firms that are not obeying the law.  Surely you are not naive enough to think that wholesale ignoring of the rules does not exist?  I suppose you also think all firms obediently pay all their taxes as well, without a thought of cheating!

[Harrowby Hall]

Oh, come on. The Government publishes lists from time to time, of firms that are not obeying the law.  Surely you are not naive enough to think that wholesale ignoring of the rules does not exist?  I suppose you also think all firms obediently pay all their taxes as well, without a thought of cheating!

OK.

You can tell us who these firms are then. You can tell us what the scope of this "wholesale ignoring of the rules" is, and how many employees are involved, and what is the proportion of employees out of the total UK working population.

Yes - there have been some, there will always be employers who try to get away with it. But they such a small, insignificant number that they are of no consequence.

The justification for your earlier statement arisises from hyperbole.

[Hope]

Whatever he says, or pledges, mean nothing.  He is a self-serving liar, and breaker of promises.

So, in this, he is no different from any other PM we've had since I was born.

He is supported by big business, and they want to stay in the EU, mainly because they can benefit from cheap labour. I believe he intends tpo keep us in the EU whatever, even if it means breaking more promises.

So, again, he is not much different from any other political party in the UK.

[Hope]

Oh, come on. The Government publishes lists from time to time, of firms that are not obeying the law.  Surely you are not naive enough to think that wholesale ignoring of the rules does not exist?  I suppose you also think all firms obediently pay all their taxes as well, without a thought of cheating!

'Many' doesn't necessarily equate to 'wholesale', BA.  The problem is that there is very liitle EU legislation regarding the level of the minimum or living wage - which is why the UK has been able to legislate.

I think the real problem is that businesses, large and small, still have a 19th century mentality in which they assume that low wages increase productivity and profit, whereas both tend to suffer under such conditions.  At the same time, as we see from the steel industry, we are competing against economies which can afford to pay less because of the size of their populations.

[BashfulAnthony]

Oh, come on. The Government publishes lists from time to time, of firms that are not obeying the law.  Surely you are not naive enough to think that wholesale ignoring of the rules does not exist?  I suppose you also think all firms obediently pay all their taxes as well, without a thought of cheating!

OK.

You can tell us who these firms are then. You can tell us what the scope of this "wholesale ignoring of the rules" is, and how many employees are involved, and what is the proportion of employees out of the total UK working population.

Yes - there have been some, there will always be employers who try to get away with it. But they such a small, insignificant number that they are of no consequence.

The justification for your earlier statement arisises from hyperbole.

Evidence?