Resurrection

[BashfulAnthony]

I think she is, of course.

Of course, but that's only your belief, which you can't demonstrate to be the case.

But the question is:  can she not remember that she is saying the same old thing every few minutes?  Quite worrying really.

You say that as though we don't hear the same old wearying parade of unevidenced assertions and logical fallacies from Christians. When can we expect you to criticise Hope for his near-daily deployment of the negative proof fallacy, for instance?

Whether she's right or not is irrelevant to the present discussion, which is about her rather disturbing repetition of the same thing, interminably.  It's a touch of the, "if I say it three times, it's true,"  syndrome, carried to excess.

[Shaker]

So as I said and you ignored, you'll be pointing this out to Hope the next time he uses his favourite fallacy, yes?

[BashfulAnthony]

So as I said and you ignored, you'll be pointing this out to Hope the next time he uses his favourite fallacy, yes?

Well, at least he doesn't say it in such a childishly boring manner.  And what would you do if he stopped?  It would seriously curtail your opportunities to be abusive and arrogant!     

[Outrider]

Science, of course, has to be verifiable...

Yes.

My science is verifiable because it upholds all of modern science and goes much, much, further.

No, it doesn't 'uphold' modern science, or even the findings of modern scientific enquiry. As soon as you assert that it 'goes further' you've exceeded scientific methodology and entered, at best, speculation. As it is, you've reverted back past the onset of scientific methodology to indulge in baseless superstition.

Sadly, we need to know what Jesus was saying and doing at the time of his ministry rather than just dismiss him because man has twisted his word to breach the code.

Why do we need to know what Jesus was saying? Surely the argument stands or falls on its own merits? Either it's true, in which case it doesn't matter if it's attributed to Jesus or not, or it's not true, in which case it doesn't matter if it's attributed to Jesus or not. Of course, if you're suggesting that the Bible misrepresents Jesus that's a different story, which would lead me to the question 'How come you have the right version'? The last guy that thought that seems to have been Joseph Smith, and the one before him was Mohammed ibn 'Abd Allah.

Science doesn't work well that way.

I can, without fear of contradiction, concede that you are an expert in how science doesn't work.

O.

[Shaker]

Well, at least he doesn't say it in such a childishly boring manner.

I'm not bothered by the manner; I'm bothered by the fact that it's a massive, howling failure of logical thought which has been pointed out to him innumerable times, yet he persists in perpetrating it practically every time he puts fingers to keyboard.

And what would you do if he stopped?  It would seriously curtail your opportunities to be abusive and arrogant!     

I'd move on to all his other logical fallacies. There are plenty of them after all.

[floo]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

Isn't Hades the Greek underworld? You're not holding truck with pagan gods, surely!?!?!

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Given that I can't see very many clear links between what you say and what's written in the Bible, I suspect it won't help very much at all. I'm glad that you think you have proof - is this proof in a format that you can communicate to other people, or is this the sort of proof that's conveniently only available inside your head via 'personal revelation/really, really wanting it to be true'?

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...

No. Science is a methodology for examining the world around us to determine the mechanics of reality. Jesus was teaching us a philosophy, at least as he's depicted in the New Testament, of (broadly) tolerance, peace and reconciliation, although the account fails to adequately compensate for the implicit misogyny of the times or the rampant homophobia, tribalism, violence and racism of its predecessor work or the contributions from some of his followers.

It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Arguably the philosophy is centred around valuing people as people, whilst the supernatural mythic elements that are hung on the story are about an omniscient deity, with unevidenced assertions like 'soul' and 'resurrection' and 'spirit' thrown in to the mix.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Your definition of science does not seem to coincide with the typical understanding of the concept.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

If this is science, faith is not required. Science is the process of accumulating evidence to support or refute provisional explanations of observed hypotheses, whilst faith is the maintenance of a preconceived position in the absence of, or in spite of, the evidence.

O.

Science, of course, has to be verifiable...My science is verifiable because it upholds all of modern science and goes much, much, further. Sadly, we need to know what Jesus was saying and doing at the time of his ministry rather than just dismiss him because man has twisted his word to breach the code. Science doesn't work well that way.

Darling NM you and science is an oxymoron!

[BashfulAnthony]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

Isn't Hades the Greek underworld? You're not holding truck with pagan gods, surely!?!?!

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Given that I can't see very many clear links between what you say and what's written in the Bible, I suspect it won't help very much at all. I'm glad that you think you have proof - is this proof in a format that you can communicate to other people, or is this the sort of proof that's conveniently only available inside your head via 'personal revelation/really, really wanting it to be true'?

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...

No. Science is a methodology for examining the world around us to determine the mechanics of reality. Jesus was teaching us a philosophy, at least as he's depicted in the New Testament, of (broadly) tolerance, peace and reconciliation, although the account fails to adequately compensate for the implicit misogyny of the times or the rampant homophobia, tribalism, violence and racism of its predecessor work or the contributions from some of his followers.

It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Arguably the philosophy is centred around valuing people as people, whilst the supernatural mythic elements that are hung on the story are about an omniscient deity, with unevidenced assertions like 'soul' and 'resurrection' and 'spirit' thrown in to the mix.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Your definition of science does not seem to coincide with the typical understanding of the concept.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

If this is science, faith is not required. Science is the process of accumulating evidence to support or refute provisional explanations of observed hypotheses, whilst faith is the maintenance of a preconceived position in the absence of, or in spite of, the evidence.

O.

Science, of course, has to be verifiable...My science is verifiable because it upholds all of modern science and goes much, much, further. Sadly, we need to know what Jesus was saying and doing at the time of his ministry rather than just dismiss him because man has twisted his word to breach the code. Science doesn't work well that way.

Darling NM you and science is an oxymoron!

As is, "Floo's posts and original posts."   

[NicholasMarks]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

Nick, I've done an alarming amount of Bible study in my time, and a bit of formal study too, and none of it bore any resemblance to your stuff. But hey, it's making you happy.

You mean you have never felt the warmth and comfort offered by realising that the world is in a mess, not by the things the sincere Christian does, who are working towards righteous peace and harmony, but the things that the unChristian do. You have never felt that you have an inner eye and an inner strength guiding you away from scammers and the deceitful. You have never felt the inner glow of caring and repair when you are tired and distressed...there us much more but I wont rub salt in the wound.

[floo]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

Nick, I've done an alarming amount of Bible study in my time, and a bit of formal study too, and none of it bore any resemblance to your stuff. But hey, it's making you happy.

You mean you have never felt the warmth and comfort offered by realising that the world is in a mess, not by the things the sincere Christian does, who are working towards righteous peace and harmony, but the things that the unChristian do. You have never felt that you have an inner eye and an inner strength guiding you away from scammers and the deceitful. You have never felt the inner glow of caring and repair when you are tired and distressed...there us much more but I wont rub salt in the wound.

Having read the Bible many times throughout my life, I get warmth and comfort  from the thought that in all probability it is a manmade creation and the evil Biblical deity doesn't exist!

[BashfulAnthony]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

Nick, I've done an alarming amount of Bible study in my time, and a bit of formal study too, and none of it bore any resemblance to your stuff. But hey, it's making you happy.

You mean you have never felt the warmth and comfort offered by realising that the world is in a mess, not by the things the sincere Christian does, who are working towards righteous peace and harmony, but the things that the unChristian do. You have never felt that you have an inner eye and an inner strength guiding you away from scammers and the deceitful. You have never felt the inner glow of caring and repair when you are tired and distressed...there us much more but I wont rub salt in the wound.

Having read the Bible many times throughout my life, I get warmth and comfort  from the thought that in all probability it is a manmade creation and the evil Biblical deity doesn't exist!

The obvious question then, is,  not believing any of it, why do you keep reading it, "many times"?

[Shaker]

Depends on the translation. If it's the Authorized Version, the sheer beauty of the English is reason enough, the Old Testament especially.

[NicholasMarks]

Floo, Shaker, Outrider:

I too have to smile a little when your very own science says that there is an invisible force...unseen and virtually undetectable, that is 93%  of all known matter in the universe but refuse to acknowledge that the Holy Bible, Jesus Christ, and now me, are saying that the other 7% is the product of that invisible material...that it is a dynamic energy clearly identified in the Holy Bible and is the spiritual water we are invited to participate in to quench all our spiritual thirsts...if we want resurrection...that is.

[Rhiannon]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

Nick, I've done an alarming amount of Bible study in my time, and a bit of formal study too, and none of it bore any resemblance to your stuff. But hey, it's making you happy.

You mean you have never felt the warmth and comfort offered by realising that the world is in a mess, not by the things the sincere Christian does, who are working towards righteous peace and harmony, but the things that the unChristian do. You have never felt that you have an inner eye and an inner strength guiding you away from scammers and the deceitful. You have never felt the inner glow of caring and repair when you are tired and distressed...there us much more but I wont rub salt in the wound.

I'll live with it. 

[floo]

Floo, Shaker, Outrider:

I too have to smile a little when your very own science says that there is an invisible force...unseen and virtually undetectable, that is 93%  of all known matter in the universe but refuse to acknowledge that the Holy Bible, Jesus Christ, and now me, are saying that the other 7% is the product of that invisible material...that it is a dynamic energy clearly identified in the Holy Bible and is the spiritual water we are invited to participate in to quench all our spiritual thirsts...if we want resurrection...that is.

DYNAMIC ENERGY! Do you have that phrase tattooed on your forehead, NM?

How many Christians, even the more extreme ones, see it your way? 

[NicholasMarks]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

Nick, I've done an alarming amount of Bible study in my time, and a bit of formal study too, and none of it bore any resemblance to your stuff. But hey, it's making you happy.

You mean you have never felt the warmth and comfort offered by realising that the world is in a mess, not by the things the sincere Christian does, who are working towards righteous peace and harmony, but the things that the unChristian do. You have never felt that you have an inner eye and an inner strength guiding you away from scammers and the deceitful. You have never felt the inner glow of caring and repair when you are tired and distressed...there us much more but I wont rub salt in the wound.

I'll live with it. 

Not according to the Holy Bible cus we are told when push comes to shove there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth...and I, in my own small way, are trying to guide you away from that.

[Rhiannon]

Thank you but it's fine, really.

[floo]

enki, SusanDorit, Floo, ippy, Outrider, Hope, Riannon, BashfulAnthony, Shaker:

I'm pleased to be back too. There is no satisfaction in being a Christian and not trying to save some from the inevitable alternative called Hades.

I have all the proof I need, it is just your misfortune if I don't make the points clearly...perhaps a Bible study might help.

Jesus was teaching us science...but it is centred around mankind rather than greed and wealth...It is centred around an All Knowing God, rather than accidental nature, and it is centred around the power of resurrection rather than the sloppy and abusive laws of spirit-craft.

Follow science and achieve everlasting life because, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ we know it is all possible.

Faith is required because it is all far to complicated for us but that faith is supplied by Biblical study.

Nick, I've done an alarming amount of Bible study in my time, and a bit of formal study too, and none of it bore any resemblance to your stuff. But hey, it's making you happy.

You mean you have never felt the warmth and comfort offered by realising that the world is in a mess, not by the things the sincere Christian does, who are working towards righteous peace and harmony, but the things that the unChristian do. You have never felt that you have an inner eye and an inner strength guiding you away from scammers and the deceitful. You have never felt the inner glow of caring and repair when you are tired and distressed...there us much more but I wont rub salt in the wound.

I'll live with it. 

Not according to the Holy Bible cus we are told when push comes to shove there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth...and I, in my own small way, are trying to guide you away from that.

Well my dear, I am afraid you are not being very successful. But your posts are entertaining, I give you that.

[NicholasMarks]

Floo, Shaker, Outrider:

I too have to smile a little when your very own science says that there is an invisible force...unseen and virtually undetectable, that is 93%  of all known matter in the universe but refuse to acknowledge that the Holy Bible, Jesus Christ, and now me, are saying that the other 7% is the product of that invisible material...that it is a dynamic energy clearly identified in the Holy Bible and is the spiritual water we are invited to participate in to quench all our spiritual thirsts...if we want resurrection...that is.

DYNAMIC ENERGY! Do you have that phrase tattooed on your forehead, NM?

How many Christians, even the more extreme ones, see it your way?

Well...in a spiritual sense, I suppose I have. How can we ignore a property that The Holy Bible says is the Mighty Power from which every star is made and not see its value. Understanding this key point will bring you into space age science and resurrection.   (must dash)

[Outrider]

You mean you have never felt the warmth and comfort offered by realising that the world is in a mess, not by the things the sincere Christian does, who are working towards righteous peace and harmony, but the things that the unChristian do.

I think it's fair to say that, whilst some Christians are indeed trying to work towards peace and harmony (righteous or otherwise), some of them are working towards imposing their religion on others against their will, stripping workforces of their employment rights and trying to impoverish the many for the benefit of the few - it's called 'America'. At the same time, there are any number of non-Christians on both sides of that divide as well.

You have never felt that you have an inner eye and an inner strength guiding you away from scammers and the deceitful.

No, I have an inner brain that guides me.

You have never felt the inner glow of caring and repair when you are tired and distressed...there us much more but I wont rub salt in the wound.

Yes, typically at the talented, qualified masseur hands of the inestimable Mrs O.

O.

[floo]

Floo, Shaker, Outrider:

I too have to smile a little when your very own science says that there is an invisible force...unseen and virtually undetectable, that is 93%  of all known matter in the universe but refuse to acknowledge that the Holy Bible, Jesus Christ, and now me, are saying that the other 7% is the product of that invisible material...that it is a dynamic energy clearly identified in the Holy Bible and is the spiritual water we are invited to participate in to quench all our spiritual thirsts...if we want resurrection...that is.

DYNAMIC ENERGY! Do you have that phrase tattooed on your forehead, NM?

How many Christians, even the more extreme ones, see it your way?

Well...in a spiritual sense, I suppose I have. How can we ignore a property that The Holy Bible says is the Mighty Power from which every star is made and not see its value. Understanding this key point will bring you into space age science and resurrection.   (must dash)

It makes no sense that is why?

[Outrider]

The obvious question then, is,  not believing any of it, why do you keep reading it, "many times"?

"If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

O.

[Hope]

"If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

O.

Clearly Floo hasn't learnt this principle.  Pretty well every time she pronounces on the general 'religion' issue she shows that she doesn't have any knowledge of her target.

[NicholasMarks]

The obvious question then, is,  not believing any of it, why do you keep reading it, "many times"?

"If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

O.

I am also quoting a few famous people in my own little post...not the least being that the scientist who said that  the first law of energy conservation is that it can neither be made or lost only changed into another equal energy when put to work...Well that is where all scientists seem to be in argument with themselves...contrary to Almighty God, Jesus Christ, Newton, and me, who say that this 'dynamic energy' that built the universe existed before the big-bang and created it...and there is no escape from this fact which science dodges with a palpitating sweat.

     

[floo]

"If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

O.

Clearly Floo hasn't learnt this principle.  Pretty well every time she pronounces on the general 'religion' issue she shows that she doesn't have any knowledge of her target.

What does that mean?

[Outrider]

I am also quoting a few famous people in my own little post...

You're not quoting, you're referencing at best, paraphrasing at least, and just plain misunderstanding in some parts.

...not the least being that the scientist who said that  the first law of energy conservation is that it can neither be made or lost only changed into another equal energy when put to work...

That sounds like Liebnitz to me, but I suspect that's not who you mean.

Well that is where all scientists seem to be in argument with themselves...contrary to Almighty God, Jesus Christ, Newton, and me, who say that this 'dynamic energy' that built the universe existed before the big-bang and created it...and there is no escape from this fact which science dodges with a palpitating sweat.

I suggest you read Krauss' 'A Universe From Nothing: Why there is something and not nothing' for a scientific account of what it seems likely, according to current scientific understanding, led to the Big Bang. You can try to hijack that for your faith system if you'd like, but I don't think you're fooling anyone. Even if you choose that particularly loose translation of the Old Testament, it still lacks the rigourous description that would make it an actual account and not just vague waffle.

O.