Squirrels

[Hope]

If one catches a grey squirrel in a humane trap - perhaps in one's roofspace - is one required to kill it humanely, or should one release it, abeit at a reasonable distance from your property?

I ask as I've been asked for advice on a local info-sharing website.

PS - I'm aware that regs regarding red squirrels are different to greys

[Shaker]

Release it, of course.

Amazed that you even have to ask.

[floo]

If one catches a grey squirrel in a humane trap - perhaps in one's roofspace - is one required to kill it humanely, or should one release it, abeit at a reasonable distance from your property?

I ask as I've been asked for advice on a local info-sharing website.

PS - I'm aware that regs regarding red squirrels are different to greys

I am not sure about that one.

[Hope]

Release it, of course.

Amazed that you even have to ask.

The person who asked thought that UK legislation required that a grey be killed.

[jeremyp]

Release it, of course.

Amazed that you even have to ask.

Amazingly, you turn out to be wrong in the eyes of the law. In law, if you catch a live grey squirrel you must dispatch it humanely.

http://www.rsne.org.uk/squirrels-and-law

[Shaker]

Release it, of course.

Amazed that you even have to ask.

Amazingly, you turn out to be wrong in the eyes of the law. In law, if you catch a live grey squirrel you must dispatch it humanely.

http://www.rsne.org.uk/squirrels-and-law

Then bollocks to the law.

[Rhiannon]

As I understand it's illegal to release it.

We have no reds here so when we caught one in our loft, we just let it go in the garden.

If the person who asked actually has a caught squirrel the situation needs to be resolved ASAP because of stress to the animal.

[jeremyp]

Release it, of course.

Amazed that you even have to ask.

Amazingly, you turn out to be wrong in the eyes of the law. In law, if you catch a live grey squirrel you must dispatch it humanely.

http://www.rsne.org.uk/squirrels-and-law

Then bollocks to the law.

Grey squirrels are considered to be pests mainly because they damage trees and have displaced the native red squirrel population.

Furthermore, if you catch a live one, releasing it in an area it doesn't know is considered to be inhumane by the RSPCA.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urlblob&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1062684074395&blobheader=application/pdf

[Shaker]

Release it, of course.

Amazed that you even have to ask.

Amazingly, you turn out to be wrong in the eyes of the law. In law, if you catch a live grey squirrel you must dispatch it humanely.

http://www.rsne.org.uk/squirrels-and-law

Then bollocks to the law.

Grey squirrels are considered to be pests mainly because they damage trees and have displaced the native red squirrel population.

I'm aware.

Furthermore, if you catch a live one, releasing it in an area it doesn't know is considered to be inhumane by the RSPCA.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urlblob&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1062684074395&blobheader=application/pdf

More stressful, less stressful or about the same stressful as being killed "humanely" by some clueless twat who hasn't the faintest idea what they're doing?

[Rhiannon]

Or take it to a vet in a car. That wouldn't be at all stressful for a wild creature, would it? 

[Hope]

Grey squirrels are considered to be pests mainly because they damage trees and have displaced the native red squirrel population.

Furthermore, if you catch a live one, releasing it in an area it doesn't know is considered to be inhumane by the RSPCA.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urlblob&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1062684074395&blobheader=application/pdf

Furthermore,

it is an offence under section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act (1981) to introduce and release grey squirrels into the wild

   http://basc.org.uk/game-and-gamekeeping/advice-and-fact-sheets/basc-grey-squirrel-control/

I think part of the problem is that the definition of killing them humanely is so narrow that the offence I refer to above and the offence of killing them non-humanely can get very close to each other.

[jeremyp]

More stressful, less stressful or about the same stressful as being killed "humanely" by some clueless twat who hasn't the faintest idea what they're doing?

If you read the RSPCA PDF, you'll see they recommend that clueless twats don't try to catch squirrels.

If you do catch one, you are between a rock and a hard place if you don't know how to handle it safely and kill it humanely. And if you just release it again into its own environment, nothing has changed except you have technically broken the law. If you release it elsewhere, you will cause it lots of stress at the minimum plus you have technically broken the law.

[BashfulAnthony]

As ever with the "Authorities," if it's any kind of nuisance, kill it.  I won't forget their disgraceful slaughter of livestock in the foot-and-mouth outbreak:  and that was wrong.

[jeremyp]

I think part of the problem is that the definition of killing them humanely is so narrow that the offence I refer to above and the offence of killing them non-humanely can get very close to each other.

The RSPCA recommends you get professional pest control people in to deal with them (see the link I posted above).

[Shaker]

More stressful, less stressful or about the same stressful as being killed "humanely" by some clueless twat who hasn't the faintest idea what they're doing?

If you read the RSPCA PDF, you'll see they recommend that clueless twats don't try to catch squirrels.

If you do catch one, you are between a rock and a hard place if you don't know how to handle it safely and kill it humanely. And if you just release it again into its own environment, nothing has changed except you have technically broken the law. If you release it elsewhere, you will cause it lots of stress at the minimum plus you have technically broken the law.

I've already made my feelings about the law clear, I thought.

My guiding maxim would always be "What would any normally compassionate, humane individual do with a sentient creature?" but clearly other people are not guided by such considerations.

[jeremyp]

I've already made my feelings about the law clear, I thought.

Well, in that case, why not campaign to have the law changed. It's a democracy, but the law currently is clear.

My guiding maxim would always be "What would any normally compassionate, humane individual do with a sentient creature?" but clearly other people are not guided by such considerations.

Maybe some people value having trees in the landscape or mourn the loss of the red squirrels.

These are wild animals. If nobody kills any of them, their population will still be controlled by starvation and predation, neither of which are particularly humane.   

[Rhiannon]

If it was caught in someone's loft just let it go back outside and make the loft secure.

[BashfulAnthony]

I've already made my feelings about the law clear, I thought.

Well, in that case, why not campaign to have the law changed. It's a democracy, but the law currently is clear.

My guiding maxim would always be "What would any normally compassionate, humane individual do with a sentient creature?" but clearly other people are not guided by such considerations.

Maybe some people value having trees in the landscape or mourn the loss of the red squirrels.

These are wild animals. If nobody kills any of them, their population will still be controlled by starvation and predation, neither of which are particularly humane.

Nature has a way of dealing with all its creatures; and it controlled the environment long before Man's coming.  But, as usual, Man, in his arrogance, thinks he knows best  -  and look at what he's done to the planet, so far!  The answer, of course, as Man sees it, is to kill!

[Rhiannon]

It was the arrogance and stupidity of humans that led to the problems with grey squirrels in the first place. So we now think we can put it right by killing them.

[Shaker]

Well, in that case, why not campaign to have the law changed. It's a democracy, but the law currently is clear.

Absolutely no point. It involves non-human animals, so nothing will happen.

Maybe some people value having trees in the landscape or mourn the loss of the red squirrels.

I love trees but value sentience over non-sentience.

These are wild animals. If nobody kills any of them, their population will still be controlled by starvation and predation, neither of which are particularly humane.

No, but neither are expressions of the odious attitude "It's in the way - so kill it."

[Hope]

My guiding maxim would always be "What would any normally compassionate, humane individual do with a sentient creature?" but clearly other people are not guided by such considerations.

The problem with this approach Shaker is that it only works in an unnatural vacuum.  As has been said, grey squirrels are vermin, but more than that they are an invasive species - such as mink, coypu (used to be), Japanese Knotweed, etc. - and have a deletorious impact on the UK's native species.  Furthermore it damages forestry and other non-sentient organisms thus creating problems for that side of things as well.  As far as I'm aware, there is no natural predator for grey squirrels here in the UK (though a dog my daughter used to foster used to make a good fist at doing so!!)

Are you suggesting that it should be left to roam unchallenged, and that its 'sentient being' status overrides its potential for damaging native species and their habitat?

[Rhiannon]

The larger carrion and birds of prey take squirrels, as do dogs.

My biggest concern with the greys is their predation of birds' nests. But we screwed up by releasing them. Are we supposed to put right our mistake by slaughtering them?

[Shaker]

As has been said, grey squirrels are vermin

Said by whom? Not by me.

Furthermore it damages forestry and other non-sentient organisms thus creating problems for that side of things as well.

Oh boo hoo. 

As far as I'm aware, there is no natural predator for grey squirrels here in the UK

Wrong.

Are you suggesting that it should be left to roam unchallenged, and that its 'sentient being' status overrides its potential for damaging native species and their habitat?

Yes.

[ad_orientem]

If one catches a grey squirrel in a humane trap - perhaps in one's roofspace - is one required to kill it humanely, or should one release it, abeit at a reasonable distance from your property?

I ask as I've been asked for advice on a local info-sharing website.

PS - I'm aware that regs regarding red squirrels are different to greys

Give it a whack on the back of the head and then eat it.

[jeremyp]

Nature has a way of dealing with all its creatures; and it controlled the environment long before Man's coming.

This is true, but don't for a minute think that it was anything other than nasty for most of the animals it "dealt with".

But, as usual, Man, in his arrogance, thinks he knows best  -  and look at what he's done to the planet, so far!  The answer, of course, as Man sees it, is to kill!

That's nature's answer too.