Author Topic: Squirrels  (Read 6409 times)

jeremyp

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2015, 10:33:43 AM »

No, but neither are expressions of the odious attitude "It's in the way - so kill it."

The current law about grey squirrels have nothing to do with them being in the way, at least not of humans.
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Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2015, 10:35:11 AM »

No, but neither are expressions of the odious attitude "It's in the way - so kill it."

The current law about grey squirrels have nothing to do with them being in the way, at least not of humans.
So why does Hopeless's OP refer to laying traps in order to catch them?
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jeremyp

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2015, 10:38:05 AM »
The larger carrion and birds of prey take squirrels, as do dogs.

My biggest concern with the greys is their predation of birds' nests. But we screwed up by releasing them. Are we supposed to put right our mistake by slaughtering them?
Have you got a better idea?

We could just leave them to their own devices and eventually nature will find a new balance. It'll be a balance with perhaps fewer native species. That's always been the way, even before there were humans.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2015, 10:39:01 AM »

Nature has a way of dealing with all its creatures; and it controlled the environment long before Man's coming.


This is true, but don't for a minute think that it was anything other than nasty for most of the animals it "dealt with".

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But, as usual, Man, in his arrogance, thinks he knows best  -  and look at what he's done to the planet, so far!  The answer, of course, as Man sees it, is to kill!
That's nature's answer too.

Then leave it to Nature.  Why then need we interfere?

I find it disquieting about some people that they are prepared to argue at length in favour of killing things: a very unpleasant inclination!
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Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2015, 10:40:37 AM »
I find it disquieting about some people that they are prepared to argue at length in favour of killing things: a very unpleasant inclination!
Very much so; but most people are like this, the only difference lies in which non-human animals they apply it to.
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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 10:41:24 AM »
Grey squirrels might look cute, but they can do a heck of a lot of damage, especially if they get into the roof space. A roof on one of our houses was damaged due to squirrel infestation. The squirrels were caught and humanely killed.

Hope

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 10:43:53 AM »
So why does Hopeless's OP refer to laying traps in order to catch them?
Like rats, squirrels will often get into roofspaces and chew through things like cabling and even plastic waterpipes.  They also find roofspaces very suitable as nesting spaces.  For obvious reasons, this means that they come into conflict with humans.  However, traps are also used outside by some because of their preadtive behaviour regarding birds, as well as eating food being grown - in gardens, for instance.
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jeremyp

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2015, 10:44:13 AM »

No, but neither are expressions of the odious attitude "It's in the way - so kill it."

The current law about grey squirrels have nothing to do with them being in the way, at least not of humans.
So why does Hopeless's OP refer to laying traps in order to catch them?

I thought you were talking about squirrels generally, not Hope's current case. I'd start by trying what Rhiannon suggested and I'd only kill the squirrel if I couldn't persuade it to go away of its own accord.
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Hope

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2015, 10:45:32 AM »
I find it disquieting about some people that they are prepared to argue at length in favour of killing things: a very unpleasant inclination!
So, you'd be happy to see native species of flora and fauna destroyed by invasive species?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2015, 10:46:03 AM »
It seems to me erroneous to have something called Nature (leaving aside the anthropomorphising of it) and then regarding Man as external to it.

jeremyp

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2015, 10:47:45 AM »

Then leave it to Nature.  Why then need we interfere?


Well, my parents once had to kill a rat that invaded their house because it got into the potato store and then proceeded to chew through various random cables over the course of a number of days. I suppose they could have caught it in a live trap and relocated it. If it happens again, can we release it into your garden?
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Hope

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2015, 10:49:54 AM »
It seems to me erroneous to have something called Nature (leaving aside the anthropomorphising of it) and then regarding Man as external to it.
Reminds me of the 'different context' story of the man who refused to be rescued from flooding by a rowboat or helicopter on the grounds that he was 'waiting for God to rescue him'.
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Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2015, 10:55:18 AM »
Like rats, squirrels will often get into roofspaces and chew through things like cabling and even plastic waterpipes.  They also find roofspaces very suitable as nesting spaces.  For obvious reasons, this means that they come into conflict with humans.  However, traps are also used outside by some because of their preadtive behaviour regarding birds, as well as eating food being grown - in gardens, for instance.
Given the mania for house-building in what is already too small an area with too many people crammed into it, this 'conflict' will only get worse because more and more humans are invading the space formerly occupied by wild animals, leaving the squirrels, rats, foxes and all the rest of the fauna in the way of whatever humans want to do, which for the most part is pollute and destroy. Given that most people in most places in most ways most of the time are stupid, lazy, greedy, weak, cruel, arrogant and selfish, said people -even non-believers, if they're not very bright ones - will always have that attenuated remnant of a religious attitude in them which allows them to get away with seeing themselves as the crown of creation and in possession of carte blanche to ride (often literally) roughshod over the lives of other beings and so much the worse for them.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 10:57:13 AM by Shaker »
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jeremyp

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2015, 11:03:56 AM »

Given the mania for house-building

What mania for house building? It seems to me that, every 10 minutes somebody laments that we do not build enough houses, hence the house price bubble.

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in what is already too small an area with too many people crammed into it, this 'conflict' will only get worse because more and more humans are invading the space formerly occupied by wild animals, leaving the squirrels, rats, foxes and all the rest of the fauna in the way of whatever humans want to do

But this is the way of nature of which you correctly stated we are part. Invasive species come in and take over the habitat of the previous residents thus making them extinct. It's been going on for billions of years.
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Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2015, 11:11:51 AM »
What mania for house building? It seems to me that, every 10 minutes somebody laments that we do not build enough houses, hence the house price bubble.
These are the people who are the ones saying we "need" to build between 200,000 and 250,000 new homes per year (even though there are already a million empty properties), yes? That mania - the one that's currently in the process of obliterating the seven and half acres of what used to be quiet green space next to me.

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But this is the way of nature of which you correctly stated we are part. Invasive species come in and take over the habitat of the previous residents thus making them extinct. It's been going on for billions of years.
Except that other species have natural checks and balances to keep the numbers down - an oestrous as opposed to a menstrual cycle in females; predators - that humans lack.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 11:23:47 AM by Shaker »
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jeremyp

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2015, 11:22:03 AM »

Except that other species have natural checks and balances to keep the numbers down - an oestral as opposed to a menstrual cycle in females; predators - that humans lack.

You forget the ultimate check and balance.

An invasive species may not have any predators in its new environment, in which case the population will grow until the local resources cannot sustain it, then it will crash. I see no reason why humans would not be susceptible to that too.
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Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2015, 11:24:59 AM »
Taking a long while and costing a lot in the natural world and other species for the human population to crash, isn't it?
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Hope

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2015, 07:41:32 PM »
Given the mania for house-building in what is already too small an area with too many people crammed into it, this 'conflict' will only get worse because more and more humans are invading the space formerly occupied by wild animals, leaving the squirrels, rats, foxes and all the rest of the fauna in the way of whatever humans want to do, which for the most part is pollute and destroy. Given that most people in most places in most ways most of the time are stupid, lazy, greedy, weak, cruel, arrogant and selfish, said people -even non-believers, if they're not very bright ones - will always have that attenuated remnant of a religious attitude in them which allows them to get away with seeing themselves as the crown of creation and in possession of carte blanche to ride (often literally) roughshod over the lives of other beings and so much the worse for them.
I believe that this is an issue that exists beyond the borders of the UK, Shaker
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Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2015, 08:17:11 PM »
Doubtless, but since I live in the UK, that's what I'm discussing.
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Spud

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2015, 08:33:48 PM »
Quote
Red squirrels occupy boreal, coniferous woods in northern Europe and Siberia, preferring Scots pine, Norway spruce and Siberian pine.
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/fr/INFD-8C8BHC
If the red squirrels prefer coniferous forests why are we worried about them disappearing in England?
Edit: see below
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 08:45:20 PM by Spud »

Spud

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2015, 08:44:12 PM »
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Red squirrels are often associated with conifer forests. This is not because this is their favourite habitat, but because it is the only habitat where they have a slight competitive advantage over the grey squirrel. In fact, their preferred habitat is mixed deciduous woodland with occasional conifers, giving a wide range of food sources, from hazel nuts and sweet chestnuts to pine cones.
http://www.cornwallredsquirrels.co.uk/page6.htm


Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2015, 09:41:17 PM »
Some of them, yes.
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OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2015, 02:48:26 AM »
Shaker's position on this is absolutely ignorant, very arrogant, and if it were to be adopted, environmentally damaging. Haven't you lost enough of your native animals Shaker?
Shed your tears for the native squirrels Shaker and get educated.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/biodiversity/simberloff.html

http://hubpages.com/politics/Invasive-Animal-Species-in-Great-Britain-Alien-Species-That-Should-Not-Be-In-The-UK

Rhiannon

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2015, 08:37:28 AM »
Irritatingly twee website but it has some good info.

http://www.grey-squirrel.org.uk/reds.php

Shaker

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Re: Squirrels
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2015, 09:08:21 AM »
Well that's where you find squirrels, isn't it - up a twee.

Sowwy  :-[
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.