God’s Love

[NicholasMarks]

Jesus is the son of God...It is plainly stated over and over and is the first error made by iniquity...and, as I might have mentioned accuracy is so important when it comes to righteous truth.

Is Jesus God or isn't he? You might have mentioned accuracy once or twice, but equally fervent readers have spent just as much time as you poring over this and come to different conclusions as though it wasn't actually as clear-cut as you claim.

One of the ways of making something clearer is to find a way to test it - you know, like the science you keep claiming this is, but keep failing to delivery on.

O.

No problem there Outrider...try reading the New Testament particularly the Gospels. Don't look for a hidden agenda...look for what is actually stated. This is the power of righteousness and the prossessor of the innocence and righteousness mind...believing what we are told from a source that will die rather than deceive. Oh...and it is a powerful catalysis in repairing emotions from lies and deceit.

[floo]

Many people will find some solace in God's love in times of travail.. I know of no verses where Jesus in any sense advocated violence.  Can you tell me which you are referring to?

Jesus is God, right? Check out the Old Testament - fire, brimstone, slaughter, devastation...

O.

Jesus is the son of God...It is plainly stated over and over and is the first error made by iniquity...and, as I might have mentioned before, accuracy is so important when it comes to righteous truth.

 

It might be plainly stated, but it doesn't mean it is true. It is much more likely Jesus was the son of Joseph or another human male. The virgin birth myth was most likely put about as Mary conceived before she married!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Many people will find some solace in God's love in times of travail.. I know of no verses where Jesus in any sense advocated violence.  Can you tell me which you are referring to?

Many people will find some solace is Allah, in Ghanesh, in Yahweh. Many found solace, no doubt, in Heimdall, in Artemis, in Thoth. Doesn't make any of them true. At the same time, many have found reason to kill, enslave and diminish in those ideas, too.

Jesus is God, right? Check out the Old Testament - fire, brimstone, slaughter, devastation... Jesus might talk pretty, but God's more than happy to lay down a good smite when he feels like it.

O.

But the Old testament starts by making the point that this is a fallen world, a world, now, of greater or lesser evil.

Also I think this is a case of editing out the New Testament as it suits. Just like pulling a ''we are honest enough to sat we don't know but science promises to tell us'' when it suits.

[Outrider]

No problem there Outrider...try reading the New Testament particularly the Gospels. Don't look for a hidden agenda...look for what is actually stated. This is the power of righteousness and the prossessor of the innocence and righteousness mind...believing what we are told from a source that will die rather than deceive. Oh...and it is a powerful catalysis in repairing emotions from lies and deceit.

Which bits? Be nice to one another - that's lovely, but it doesn't require a God or any of the supernatural frills. The homophobia, the slavery apologetics, the misogyny, where do they fit in with that idea of 'be nice to everyone'?

O.

[NicholasMarks]

No problem there Outrider...try reading the New Testament particularly the Gospels. Don't look for a hidden agenda...look for what is actually stated. This is the power of righteousness and the prossessor of the innocence and righteousness mind...believing what we are told from a source that will die rather than deceive. Oh...and it is a powerful catalysis in repairing emotions from lies and deceit.

Which bits? Be nice to one another - that's lovely, but it doesn't require a God or any of the supernatural frills. The homophobia, the slavery apologetics, the misogyny, where do they fit in with that idea of 'be nice to everyone'?

O.

There are many problems with the world all stemming from evil forces...iniquity is one...atheism is another...genetic faults another still. Now I am sure you can see Outrider that the highest science would want to tackle all of these in the most efficient way possible and that is by righteousness, resurrection and allowing those who choose to just wrestle with the own destructive ways which will virtually destroy the world to carry on until they achieve there desires...then...after giving fair and honest warning, reclaim the planet minus its disruptive influences.

Seems fair to me.

[Outrider]

There are many problems with the world all stemming from evil forces...

Are you including the New Testament validated slavery, misogyny and homophobia in that, or not?

iniquity is one...

The fact that the word has negative connotations makes that almost tautological, doesn't it?

atheism is another...

So you accept that Thor is going to bring about Ragnarok by slaying the world-snake?

genetic faults another still.

Genetic 'faults'? Imperfect gene replication can, in some instances, cause problems, but it's also caused people, so it's kind of morally neutral, I'd say.

Now I am sure you can see Outrider that the highest science would want to tackle all of these in the most efficient way possible and that is by righteousness, resurrection and allowing those who choose to just wrestle with the own destructive ways which will virtually destroy the world to carry on until they achieve there desires...then...after giving fair and honest warning, reclaim the planet minus its disruptive influences.

Even if I were to accept the notion that there is a 'higher' science - science is just the provisional validation of hypotheses by testing, none of it is any 'higher' or 'lower' than any of the rest - I'd have to say that it's laughable to talk about 'resurrection' and 'righteousness' as scientific terms. Ressurection might be an hypothesis, but there's no reliable evidence to support it, and righteousness is not a scientific concept: how would you measure it, how would you define it?

Seems fair to me.

Seems like nonsense to me.

O.

[floo]

Everything which is good is attributed by some to the deity, but all that is bad is of course nothing to do with it! YEH RIGHT!

[NicholasMarks]

Everything which is good is attributed by some to the deity, but all that is bad is of course nothing to do with it! YEH RIGHT!

Without looking up the exact reference Floo Almighty God says he is the giver of all goodness and all evil. He himself is the righteous side of the equation but all evil is the product of the same mechanics that God is the owner of...he just dislikes, intensely, those who follow its evil path.

[floo]

God says he is the giver of all goodness and all evil.

If that were true it would make it a complete psycho!

[NicholasMarks]

God says he is the giver of all goodness and all evil.

If that were true it would make it a complete psycho!

To the uninitiated it might seem anything but what is the actual truth, but to the Christian it means that evil is sponsored by the misuse of the same energy which could be harnessed for righteousness, resurrection and God's love, but if we build our own barriers against God we become susceptible to the evil behaviour of those using God's righteous energy in an abusive way...which will lead to great tribulations, WW3, and ultimately, no righteous salvation, no resurrection, and none of God's love.


 .

[floo]

God says he is the giver of all goodness and all evil.

If that were true it would make it a complete psycho!

To the uninitiated it might seem anything but what is the actual truth, but to the Christian it means that evil is sponsored by the misuse of the same energy which could be harnessed for righteousness, resurrection and God's love, but if we build our own barriers against God we become susceptible to the evil behaviour of those using God's righteous energy in an abusive way...which will lead to great tribulations, WW3, and ultimately, no righteous salvation, no resurrection, and none of God's love.


 .

Why would the deity create evil, as presumably it knew exactly what would happen if it did? I say again only a complete psycho would do that, your excuses for it make no sense at all!

[NicholasMarks]

God says he is the giver of all goodness and all evil.

If that were true it would make it a complete psycho!

To the uninitiated it might seem anything but what is the actual truth, but to the Christian it means that evil is sponsored by the misuse of the same energy which could be harnessed for righteousness, resurrection and God's love, but if we build our own barriers against God we become susceptible to the evil behaviour of those using God's righteous energy in an abusive way...which will lead to great tribulations, WW3, and ultimately, no righteous salvation, no resurrection, and none of God's love.


 .

Why would the deity create evil, as presumably it knew exactly what would happen if it did? I say again only a complete psycho would do that, your excuses for it make no sense at all!

Of course you don't agree with me Floo...you fail to see anything I say even though millions have seen logic and sense in the Holy Bible messages...and I am very careful to say we must follow the accurate teaching of Jesus as he taught it...no matter I will make it a little easier for you...

...say I invented and produced many cars and allowed everyone to use it as long as they followed the rules and though some did follow the rules and got a lot of pleasure out of my invention others decided they should do it their way and as a consequence they not only destroyed the good name of my cars they also destroyed themselves and many of the good guys who were following the rules...so I say 'That's it...those who used my car and followed the rules can continue to use it but those who abused my trust will have to give it back'. Well those destroyers kicked and screamed and even tried to blow up my car producing factory but they blew themselves up instead. It would all be very sad but the good guys would find that life was much sweeter...and the bad guys were quickly forgotten.


 

[floo]

Well I certainly don't see any logic in a deity supposedly creating good and evil, unless it was going to sit back and enjoy the mayhem it would cause.

Just because millions might believe it to be true, although I suspect very few follow your very own version of faith, doesn't make it so! Millions believe in Allah and his take on faith, does that make it true?

[Outrider]

To the uninitiated it might seem anything but what is the actual truth, but to the Christian it means that evil is sponsored by the misuse of the same energy which could be harnessed for righteousness, resurrection and God's love, but if we build our own barriers against God we become susceptible to the evil behaviour of those using God's righteous energy in an abusive way...which will lead to great tribulations, WW3, and ultimately, no righteous salvation, no resurrection, and none of God's love.

Truth doesn't required a pre-conceived theological position, truth is truth regardless of who looks at it. There is no 'truth for Christians', there is just truth.

O.

[Sassy]

God and 'love' is an oxymoron. There is absolutely nothing loving about the behaviour attributed to the Biblical deity. If it exists, which seems unlikely, we should be seeking ways of exterminating it!

No Floo,

That is your opinion based on your own beliefs and NOTHING to do with the bible.
Your problem is you place yourself at the centre of everything in your world. No room for anything but your way and you.

The truth of the bible you never know because you have no room for anyones truth but your own. You do not know the bible, you do not understand the way of the world in it's history and you are the true reflection of those who put themselves above everything including God. Not aware of the reality and evil that it creates.

One day your eyes will be open. Let us hope you do not miss the window of opportunity.

[Outrider]

No Floo,

That is your opinion based on your own beliefs and NOTHING to do with the bible.

Samuel 6:19 - And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men

Mass murder courtesy of God.

Deuteronomy 25:11 - If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

A punishment for defending your husband.

Peter 1 2:18 - Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.

Condoning slavery

Exodus 21:7-8 - When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.

Condoning sex slavery and misogyny

Kings II 6:28-29 - And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son....

Cannibalism

Deuteronomy 23:1 - He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.

Prejudice against the disfigured and/or disabled

Genesis 19:31-36 - And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

Incest

Chronicles II 21:14-15 - Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.

Genocide

There is no amount of philanthropy or 'love thy neighbour' speeches - which are, in themselves, creditable - that can make up for these views.

Your problem is you place yourself at the centre of everything in your world. No room for anything but your way and you.

No, she places humanity at the centre of her world-view. That's slightly limiting, but not nearly as crazy as putting a 3000 year old imaginary friend at the centre of your world-view.

The truth of the bible you never know because you have no room for anyone's truth but your own. You do not know the bible, you do not understand the way of the world in it's history and you are the true reflection of those who put themselves above everything including God. Not aware of the reality and evil that it creates.

Whereas the true reflection of those that put God at the centre of their world cut through a restaurant in Paris this week, or blew themselves and a few dozen others up in Beirut this week...

One day your eyes will be open. Let us hope you do not miss the window of opportunity.

Unfortunately, I have no confidence that most believers eyes will ever be opened. All I can hope is that we build a culture despite them that encourages their offspring to think for themselves until religion withers and dies.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Truth doesn't required a pre-conceived theological position, truth is truth regardless of who looks at it. There is no 'truth for Christians', there is just truth.

O.

"What is truth?"

[Outrider]

"What is truth?"

It's an accurate assessment of reality.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

It's an accurate assessment of reality.

O.

But everyone's experience of the world and reality is a bit different - we all have different life experiences, background beliefs, personalities and dispositions, and even genetics that shape our view of the world. This makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to say what is absolute truth.

[Outrider]

But everyone's experience of the world and reality is a bit different - we all have different life experiences, background beliefs, personalities and dispositions, and even genetics that shape our view of the world. This makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to say what is absolute truth.

Yes, it is, but it doesn't make it impossible to rule out some obvious nonsense.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Yes, it is, but it doesn't make it impossible to rule out some obvious nonsense.

O.

Maybe, but that does't leave us with an answer.

[Outrider]

Maybe, but that does't leave us with an answer.

It does allow us to reject some very obviously wrong answers, though.

O.

[Sassy]

Samuel 6:19 - And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men

Mass murder courtesy of God.

Deuteronomy 25:11 - If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

A punishment for defending your husband.

Peter 1 2:18 - Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.

Condoning slavery

Exodus 21:7-8 - When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.

Condoning sex slavery and misogyny

Kings II 6:28-29 - And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son....

Cannibalism

Deuteronomy 23:1 - He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.

Prejudice against the disfigured and/or disabled

Genesis 19:31-36 - And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

Incest

Chronicles II 21:14-15 - Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.

Genocide

There is no amount of philanthropy or 'love thy neighbour' speeches - which are, in themselves, creditable - that can make up for these views.

No, she places humanity at the centre of her world-view. That's slightly limiting, but not nearly as crazy as putting a 3000 year old imaginary friend at the centre of your world-view.

Whereas the true reflection of those that put God at the centre of their world cut through a restaurant in Paris this week, or blew themselves and a few dozen others up in Beirut this week...

Unfortunately, I have no confidence that most believers eyes will ever be opened. All I can hope is that we build a culture despite them that encourages their offspring to think for themselves until religion withers and dies.

O.

No1 That is what happened when the Jews left Egypt and had their own covenant with God. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity and Gods purpose for man today.

The things that happened then was to a people who killed their own children by sacrificing them to false pagan idols. They were not civilised and they would kill you as soon as look at you. No police officers to protect you.

As I said NOTHING to do with the real God who has shown himself through the actions of Christ. You need to go back to the drawing board.

Mankind today are still doing worse things. Tell me what the people in France did to deserve such evil actions. Mankind is the author of their own evil.

[Outrider]

No1 That is what happened when the Jews left Egypt and had their own covenant with God. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity and Gods purpose for man today.

Is it the same God? My understanding of Christian theology is that, yes, it's the same God, and therefore capable of those acts. It doesn't really matter if you think that's what's in store for us, that's what your perfectly good deity is capable of - that's not a good character.

The things that happened then was to a people who killed their own children by sacrificing them to false pagan idols.

Like Abraham was commended for being prepared to do? The things that happened didn't just happen to the adults, or to the guilty.

They were not civilised and they would kill you as soon as look at you. No police officers to protect you.

Why should that bother God? God's best option is to wipe them out? Genocide - we know that's not a good option, and we have limited capacity, how come God didn't understand that?

As I said NOTHING to do with the real God who has shown himself through the actions of Christ. You need to go back to the drawing board.

No, I don't. In the New Testament Jesus says that he's not overturning the current laws of the Jewish people, which are founded in the Old Testament - he says it's the same God. That's not a creditable character.

Mankind today are still doing worse things.

Bad things - I'm not sure there's 'worse' things than genocide, slavery and indentured sexual servitude.

Tell me what the people in France did to deserve such evil actions. Mankind is the author of their own evil.

Nobody in France did anything to deserve this.

O.

[floo]

No1 That is what happened when the Jews left Egypt and had their own covenant with God. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity and Gods purpose for man today.

The things that happened then was to a people who killed their own children by sacrificing them to false pagan idols. They were not civilised and they would kill you as soon as look at you. No police officers to protect you.

As I said NOTHING to do with the real God who has shown himself through the actions of Christ. You need to go back to the drawing board.

Mankind today are still doing worse things. Tell me what the people in France did to deserve such evil actions. Mankind is the author of their own evil.

Abraham was evil to have tried to sacrifice his son to his god!