Terror attacks in Paris.

[Nearly Sane]

So you wouldn't teach a child not to murder, Floo? The problem with the idea of not teaching children such things as philosophies is that what might be defined as that is wider than just labelled 'isms'.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Terrible. I understand machine guns and shot guns were involved. This seems to be happening regularly in France despite it's strict gun laws. If people want to kill, they will.

[Nearly Sane]

Roddy Doyle's attempt to deal with the tragedy in Paris in a lighter fashion.




'-Paris.
-Fuckin' hell.
-Unbelievable. Can yeh imagine? Out on a Friday nigh'. An' that happens.
-Fuckin' savages.
-Fuckin' terrible.
-Were yeh ever there?
-Paris?
-Yeah.
-No, I wasn’t - not really.
-What's tha' mean?
-Well, like - I was never in Paris but I'd nearly feel like I was, yeh know. Cos o' the - yeh know - the images an' the songs an' tha'. They're just so well known an' brilliant. The fillums an' stories - Pinocchio.
-Fuckin' Pinocchio?
-The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
-Tha' wasn't fuckin' Pinocchio.
-Who was it then?
-The other fella - I can't remember. Pinocchio was the little wooden fucker.
-That's righ'.
-Italian
-That's righ'.
-Irritatin’ little bollix.
-That’s righ’. Anyway. Thinkin' about it – wha’ happened last night, like. Football, music, a bit o' grub on a Friday nigh', a few drinks. They don't like life, the cunts tha' did it. Sure they don't?
-Looks tha’ way, alrigh’. Quasimodo.
-Good man. That's the Hunchback.
-I remembered - I was worried there for a bit.
-The bells, the bells. He was brilliant, Quasimodo, wasn’t he?
-One o' the lads.
-Je suis Quasimodo.'

[jeremyp]

There is nothing to show that the perpetrators of the Paris atrocity were French!

Apart form the fact that at least one of them was French (identified by his fingerprints and already known to the authorities).

[Owlswing]

There is nothing to show that the perpetrators of the Paris atrocity were French!

Apart form the fact that at least one of them was French (identified by his fingerprints and already known to the authorities).

One out of how many?

Nitpicking maybe, but . . .

[Shaker]

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/what-a-charlie-hebdo-cartoonist-drew-after-the-second-paris-terror-attack-in-a-year--Z1ZZbO3VYx

[Nearly Sane]

Even jihadi John seemed to have a relatively secular upbringing, it sounds the opposite of a narrow religious upbringing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11438545/Jihadi-John-From-ordinary-schoolboy-to-worlds-most-wanted-man.html

IMO this shows Ippy is wrong in his claim that a religious upbringing causes this.


Isis must have filled some hole or missing part in his life, like bright students at university getting drawn into something ridiculous.

I don't agree completely with ippy but the article doesn't say he was brought up in a secular manner. It states he was religious and became more devout.

[Shaker]

BBC news just now: 129 confirmed dead, 352 injured of which 99 are deemed to be critically so

There's a time and place for religious debate, and contrary to popular belief I enjoy a good barney as much as the next man, but perhaps it might be an idea to split those posts onto another thread and leave this one for a discussion of the events in Paris which are going to keep changing as more facts become known.

Just a suggestion, that's all.

[JP]

Thoughts of an ex Muslim on twitter tackling people who blame those who finance the murderers (nothing to do with Islam).

To those who are asking who is financing terrorism

You have been raising children on tales of prophets avenging, on celebrating great massacres, on praising heroes beheading enemies, on religious role models killing infidels, on stories of the hell that awaits those on the other side, on exalting martyrdom for murderer and murdered equally (f**k this whole concept by the way), on Armageddon and its war and blood.

And when those you bred start living up to you, your role models, your religion and your God you begin to wonder who is financing them! Who gives a f**k who gives them the money.

You are the one mentally financing them, they just found a source of income to make your tales reality.

[BashfulAnthony]

Following my comment in M19, it now seems that at least two of the Paris murderers are recent "refugees." And, frighteningly, how many more are infiltrating in this way?

[torridon]

Following my comment in M19, it now seems that at least two of the Paris murderers are recent "refugees." And, frighteningly, how many more are infiltrating in this way?

Yes that might be a frightening prospect.

It is a more frightening propsect still that Europe might close its borders and its compassion to people fleeing atrocities because we risk inadvertantly importing a few more terrorists. What happened in Paris was appalling to be sure but lets not forget that equates to a fairly peaceful day in Syria which has routinely seen a higher death toll day in day out for years now.  To turn our backs on them is to condemn them to deaths in far greater numbers than if we take the risk of resettling them.

[BashfulAnthony]

Following my comment in M19, it now seems that at least two of the Paris murderers are recent "refugees." And, frighteningly, how many more are infiltrating in this way?

Yes that might be a frightening prospect.

It is a more frightening propsect still that Europe might close its borders and its compassion to people fleeing atrocities because we risk inadvertantly importing a few more terrorists. What happened in Paris was appalling to be sure but lets not forget that equates to a fairly peaceful day in Syria which has routinely seen a higher death toll day in day out for years now.  To turn our backs on them is to condemn them to deat

As most politicians agree, the answer can never be to accept countless hundreds of thousands of refugees:  that is an impossible route to take.  It is not a question of lacking compassion.  The answer lies in somehow solving the problem at source, and settling the Syrian war. 

It seems that if only point one of one per cent of the total migrants so far in Europe is a trained terrorist, that amounts to a possible 15,000 of them!!  Horrific possibility!

[jeremyp]

It seems that if only point one of one per cent of the total migrants so far in Europe is a trained terrorist, that amounts to a possible 15,000 of them!!  Horrific possibility!

Clearly 0.1% of them aren't terrorists then. Otherwise we'd have this kind of mayhem every day.

[ad_orientem]

Following my comment in M19, it now seems that at least two of the Paris murderers are recent "refugees." And, frighteningly, how many more are infiltrating in this way?

Which is why Europe shouldn't be accepting half the Middle-East, but it seems Europe is determined to press the self-destruct button and soon Europe will no longer be recognisably European anymore.

[Gordon]

Moderator:

As suggested in the original thread, we have now removed a number of posts that went beyond the recent ongoing events in Paris into wider issues in order that this thread remains mainly about the immediate situation in Paris.

We will now look at these other posts and try to make a separate thread from these other posts.

[Nearly Sane]

Somewhat shocked that given the source, both the newspaper and the writer, to find I agree with a lot of this. I am still in the position of trying to process recent events, and standing with Paris and those suffering from violence elsewhere, and rather like Peter Hitchens I have no suggestions that are magic wands but I think I is clear that some actions will not deal with things.


http://tinyurl.com/pmjq53l

[Owlswing]

Somewhat shocked that given the source, both the newspaper and the writer, to find I agree with a lot of this. I am still in the position of trying to process recent events, and standing with Paris and those suffering from violence elsewhere, and rather like Peter Hitchens I have no suggestions that are magic wands but I think I is clear that some actions will not deal with things.


http://tinyurl.com/pmjq53l

There cannot be, as far as I can see, any simple solution to the question that is being asked - How do we stop these kinds of incidents?

Without curbing the democratic freedoms of one group or another it would seem to be impossible.

Unfair though it mighht be to say it but when terrorist attacks are carried out under the banner of one particular group, be it Islam, Communism, or nationality the entire membership of the related religion, political philosophy or nation are immediately under suspicion of, at the very least, tacit, support of the particular terrorist group. Thus all Muslims, all Communists (or Left-wingers) or Irishmen are immediately tarred with the same brush as the terrorists. Those members of these groupos who deny any sympathy are immediatly seen as "well, you would say that wouldn't you" and previously firm friendships of long standing are destroyed in a haze of not knowing who is and who is not supporting the extremeists.

It is fine to watch the American President denouncing terrorism, but it should be remembered that, for quite a while, the IRA was funded by Americans, funded and armed, and they even had coach tours to sites of IRA murders. I hope that the Americans have, and it seems that they might have, learned that the Atlantic and Pacific oceans are no protection any more than the Channel is the bulwark that it once was.

No one country can beat terrorism that is bases upon a worldwide belief - politics or religion - and the sooner that the entire world gets its act together, and that includes the Russians, the sooner we might have a chance of defeating these terrorists. 

[Nearly Sane]

Surely the idea that somehow Barack Obama is not supposed to denounce terrorism because some Americans funded the IRA 30 years ago, leads to no one being able to speak on anything as that sort of thinking is exactly the same as those who seek to tie the actions of the murdering thugs in Paris etc to actions of the Americans, French etc.?
 

The problems with 'curbing democratic freedoms', whatever you actually have in mind there, for one group is that (a) that is quite difficult to do without affecting everyones' freedoms, and (b) then becomes a legitimate grievance for that group.

[Owlswing]

Surely the idea that somehow Barack Obama is not supposed to denounce terrorism because some Americans funded the IRA 30 years ago, leads to no one being able to speak on anything as that sort of thinking is exactly the same as those who seek to tie the actions of the murdering thugs in Paris etc to actions of the Americans, French etc.?
 

The problems with 'curbing democratic freedoms', whatever you actually have in mind there, for one group is that (a) that is quite difficult to do without affecting everyones' freedoms, and (b) then becomes a legitimate grievance for that group.

My apologies - NS - I did not, on re-reading make myself clear.

It took a direct attack on America, 9/11, to bring home to America the realities of being the target of terrorism.

Also re "curbing democratic freedoms" I meant that working on the Paris situation - curbing freedom of travel, placing restictions on people who are members of the religion, political philisophy, nationality that the terrorists are identified with to attempt prevention of attacks and your a and b above amply demonstrates exactly what I meant even if I did not put it as well as you did.   

[Nearly Sane]

John Oliver on the attacks in Paris


NSFW or BA

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/8573068

[Owlswing]

John Oliver on the attacks in Paris


NSFW or BA

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/8573068

Enjoyed and applauded the clip but and not sure of the meaning of your "NSFW or BA" reference - showing my thicko side I have no doubt!

[Outrider]

John Oliver on the attacks in Paris


NSFW or BA

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/8573068

Enjoyed and applauded the clip but and not sure of the meaning of your "NSFW or BA" reference - showing my thicko side I have no doubt!

NSFW - Not Safe For Work.

O.

[Shaker]

NSFW = Not Safe For Work (usually indicates swearing or some sexual or otherwise adult content) for B(ashful) A(nthony).

[Owlswing]

NSFW = Not Safe For Work (usually indicates swearing or some sexual or otherwise adult content) for B(ashful) A(nthony).

Clever! Must remember that one!

[Nearly Sane]

Note America had been the subject of both international terrorism with the first Twin Tower attack and domestic terrorism with most noticeably the Oklahoma bomb amongst numerous others. The idea that you can identify a nation of some 250 million to 320 million, over the time being discussed as having a single view on terrorism because a tiny subset of mainly Irish extraction contributed to 'the struggles' is merely part of the same mindset that justifies terrorism on civilians because they, the Brits, the Yanks, the French, the Jews are all the same.