Terror attacks in Paris.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane or World or even forum,

In amongst all this, I did my best to remind our viewers that Cystisis are interpreting the Islamic faith in a highly extreme, and self-serving way, and that the vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims – around 99.997 per cent – disapprove of them.

And what could be more Australian than taking the piss out of those who deserve it, while giving a fair go to those who need it?'

Dear Adam Hills,

Good on ye mate and fair dikkums and other wonderful Australian sayings ( which reminds me of Pratchett's "the last continent" brilliant book satirizing our Australian cousins )

Yes! take the piss out of Cystisis, not Islam.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Forum,

Jeremy Vine show, radio 2, just now.

Talking to ordinary Muslims about the atrocities.

One Iman said, not just an attack on Paris but on all humanity.

A business man, Muslim, large banner outside his property condemning the atrocities.

Another Muslim who has started a hashtag ( whatever a hashtag is ) which states, not in my name.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

I find it odd that the deaths in Nigeria from.Boko Haram, isn't even on the first page of the BBC


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34852971

[Udayana]

Dear Forum,

Jeremy Vine show, radio 2, just now.

Talking to ordinary Muslims about the atrocities.

One Iman said, not just an attack on Paris but on all humanity.

A business man, Muslim, large banner outside his property condemning the atrocities.

Another Muslim who has started a hashtag ( whatever a hashtag is ) which states, not in my name.

Gonnagle.

Did you hear the earlier part of the show? - Ludicrous discussion whether we should nuke ISIS !
 

[Nearly Sane]

Did you hear the earlier part of the show? - Ludicrous discussion whether we should nuke ISIS !
 

There are people in favour of it?

[BeRational]

There are people in favour of it?

Crazy!

[Udayana]

Apparently ... I was at the barbers so not listening carefully ... just astounded.

[BashfulAnthony]

I find it odd that the deaths in Nigeria from.Boko Haram, isn't even on the first page of the BBC


http://www.b...

I agree.  Part of the problem is that there isn't enough time to cover all the horrors that are going on, world-wide.

[Rhiannon]

Shouldn't the authorities be trying to keep track of thousands of known Jihadists, people returning from Syria and properly identifying asylum seekers rather than set up the collection of vast amounts of mostly useless information?

Just as after previous incidents instead of doing what is needed to prevent radicalization and attacks more effort is spent on convincing people that the more freedom they are willing to give up, the safer they will be.

I agree with this. We want to spot crucial pieces of information so we collect a load of useless information in which for it to get lost. Madness.

And it doesn't matter who is doing the snooping; having no true private life does not make you safer. Just the opposite.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Udayana,

Did you hear the earlier part of the show? - Ludicrous discussion whether we should nuke ISIS !

Oh yes!! one person suggested just a little nuclear bomb

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Udayana,

Oh yes!! one person suggested just a little nuclear bomb

Gonnagle.

To be sung to the tune of Just a Little Bit by Gina G


You're the bomb, you're my loudest thing
Let bombs away, let bombs away
Every night I just hate this way
Can't get enough of your bang


Am  I wrong? Would it be unkind?
Letting bombs away this very day
I can't hide these thoughts in my mind
Every moment just thinking of boom

Ooh ah just a little bomb
Ooh ah, just one bomb more
Ooh ah, just a little bomb
Bombs are what I'm looking for

[Rhiannon]

The little bomb to make IS go away sounds like a child's wish to make the monster under the bed disappear to me.

[wigginhall]

Well, military action in itself is very appealing, as it has a kind of simplicity.  And you could probably go into Syria, and defeat IS, or at least take over the towns which they control.

But as politicians do realize, it's the next bit which is difficult.   After all,  defeating the Iraqui army wasn't difficult, but it was the next bit which floored Western administrators.  I wonder if they thought it was a bit like  a bad school, you could install new staff and put it in special measures, and hey presto.   Trouble is, quite a lot of local people objected rather vehemently.

Even saying that Syria should be divided up presents a huge political problem - who are we to do that?  It sounds like colonialism again. 

[Nearly Sane]

Elsewhere I have been talking about that we need to concentrate on the small and achievable and not grand plans. This is Jake Burns of Stiff Little Fingers writing about playing Paris after the atrocities. Anyone who knows anything about SLF will know why this might have import. It is one of those small steps. There are gigs I am sad to have missed. This is one.

http://classicrock.teamrock.com/features/2015-11-19/why-stiff-little-fingers-paris-gig-had-to-go-ahead-by-jake-burns

[Gonnagle]

Dear Forum,

Question time, David Dimbleby,

this is not the House of Commons this is a serious programme

.

Gonnagle.

[BashfulAnthony]

Dear Forum,

Question time, David Dimbleby,.

Gonnagle.

Do look at This Week;  Andrew Neill will hit the nail on the head, i've no doubt.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Forum,

Just a thought, listening to Question Time last night, the overwhelming feeling I got from listening to all the Panel members ( even the tory representative, Anna Soubry ) and the vast majority of the audience, we should stop referring to the terrorists as Islamic state, the word Islam should be taken away from these barbaric monsters.

Just a thought!

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

This statement from man whose wife was killed in the attacks is incredibly powerful

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34862437

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Forum,

Just a thought, listening to Question Time last night, the overwhelming feeling I got from listening to all the Panel members ( even the tory representative, Anna Soubry ) and the vast majority of the audience, we should stop referring to the terrorists as Islamic state, the word Islam should be taken away from these barbaric monsters.

Just a thought!

Gonnagle.

Why.

I find the argument that these people somehow aren't 'islamic' or muslim disingenuous. It is just as bad as implying that somehow all muslims are potential terrorists.

I think we have to start being honest here. Sure the brand of islam espoused by ISIS is abhorrent to the vast majority of muslims, but that doesn't mean that ISIS are somehow not muslims or somehow do not base their ideology fundamentally on islamic teaching - they do. I think they are mostly likely to be very devout muslims - the point is that they are murderous devout muslims.

So lets not pretend they aren't muslims (they are) and lets also not pretend that because they are muslims it somehow means that all muslims are extremists (they aren't).

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

As I said it was just a thought, my thinking and yes you can accuse me of maybe not thinking it through properly, take away from them the very thing they think they are fighting for.

On this forum ( in my own humble opinion ) we have posters who actually put some thought into what is happening, I could list them, but the list would be to long, but your average Joe, the man or woman rushing to work, trying to earn a living, they read their paper or watch the news and see or hear the words Islamic state.

From what I have heard over the last couple of days and as I stated in my last post, the overwhelming feeling I got from the audience ( Muslim and non Muslim ) on Question Time, these monsters are so far removed from Islam that they don't deserve the name.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Prof,

As I said it was just a thought, my thinking and yes you can accuse me of maybe not thinking it through properly, take away from them the very thing they think they are fighting for.

On this forum ( in my own humble opinion ) we have posters who actually put some thought into what is happening, I could list them, but the list would be to long, but your average Joe, the man or woman rushing to work, trying to earn a living, they read their paper or watch the news and see or hear the words Islamic state.

From what I have heard over the last couple of days and as I stated in my last post, the overwhelming feeling I got from the audience ( Muslim and non Muslim ) on Question Time, these monsters are so far removed from Islam that they don't deserve the name.

Gonnagle.

If you talked to ISIS they would probably think that moderate muslims are so far removed from Islam that they don't deserve the name.

If we start to pretend they are something that they aren't (i.e. not muslims motivated by their interpretation of islamic teaching, interpretations which I freely accept are completely rejected by the vast majority of muslims) then we are being dishonest. And if it makes us feel queazy to describe them as they are well that's something for us to deal with.

To try to pretend that ISIS aren't muslims motivated by their interpretation of islamic teaching is like trying to pretend that the IRA weren't Irish or republican and motivated by their desire for a united Ireland.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

I am not pretending anything, merely putting my thoughts down in black and white, it helps me see my mistakes.

http://tinyurl.com/ohm8dt5

Gonnagle.

PS: Sorry, where are my manners, the link was courtesy of our Rose.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11218.msg571136#msg571136

[Outrider]

As I said it was just a thought, my thinking and yes you can accuse me of maybe not thinking it through properly, take away from them the very thing they think they are fighting for.

We can't take Islam away from them. If we try to rename them, that's just more ammunition for them - "They refuse to even recognise the truth of Allah and his prophet!"

On this forum ( in my own humble opinion ) we have posters who actually put some thought into what is happening, I could list them, but the list would be to long, but your average Joe, the man or woman rushing to work, trying to earn a living, they read their paper or watch the news and see or hear the words Islamic state.

You can, unfortunately, not force people to take up the education they are offered any more than you can force them to take up or give up a faith.

From what I have heard over the last couple of days and as I stated in my last post, the overwhelming feeling I got from the audience ( Muslim and non Muslim ) on Question Time, these monsters are so far removed from Islam that they don't deserve the name.

Whereas what I get from those sorts of discussions is the realisation that Islam - and the other religions - are so vague as to be able to justify just about anything.

O.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

On reading about how we name these monsters I see the word Daesh is being banded about by Obama and the French President Hollande, but there is a bit of debate about what that word actually means.

Another word being thrown about is Solidarity, Solidarity with who, over the past couple of days I have heard many ordinary Muslims protesting, not in my name, they are as disgusted as you and me over the atrocities.

Where does my solidarity lie.

We can't take Islam away from them. If we try to rename them, that's just more ammunition for them

Not from what I have read, they will cut the tongue out of anyone using the word Daesh.

You can, unfortunately, not force people to take up the education they are offered any more than you can force them to take up or give up a faith.

But why fan the flames of Islamaphobia, because that is definitely what they want.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Outrider,

On reading about how we name these monsters I see the word Daesh is being banded about by Obama and the French President Hollande, but there is a bit of debate about what that word actually means.

I gather it is an acronym for the Arabic phrase al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq al-Sham (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant). The reason they don't like it is not because it indicates they are islamic, but because it sounds very similar to Daes and Dahes which are considered derogatory terms.

But this is really silly from the west - scared to be honest and accept that the group's prime motivation is their interpretation of islamic teaching, so call them effectively the same but in a language most don't understand. It would be like calling the IRS its equivalent in Gaelic because you are afraid of being seen to accept their motivation being ... err ... Irish republicanism.

Another word being thrown about is Solidarity, Solidarity with who, over the past couple of days I have heard many ordinary Muslims protesting, not in my name, they are as disgusted as you and me over the atrocities.

Where does my solidarity lie.

Not from what I have read, they will cut the tongue out of anyone using the word Daesh.

But why fan the flames of Islamaphobia, because that is definitely what they want.

Gonnagle.

You aren't going to quench islamophobia through dishonesty. The honest view is to accept first that ISIS are muslims and are motivated by their interpretation of islamic teaching, but also to recognise and reiterate time after time that most muslims do not accept their interpretation of islam and certainly completely and utterly reject their methods.