The Meek Will Inherit the Earth

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think we are at anywhere near the stage of evidencing for a god. We would first have to get to the stage of a meaningful definition and then a methodology for evidencing that definition. If somethings are not even wrong, claims about evidence for gods are not even capable of spelling wrong.

[NicholasMarks]

All:

The proof that there is a God, of the power and design Jesus Christ taught us about, is proven by the millions who have sought sanctity in Jesus' words.

Because many others have sought sanctity in other, false gods, shows the intensity of the hatred that builds up around us and inflicts appalling injury upon the more caring in this world. This is why false prophets are able to tamper with the mechanics of righteousness for their own purposes...often selfishness, greed, war-mongering and the adhesion of the masses...as proven by the ancient Egyptians and the like.

Jesus died for us to prove the science of resurrection, which, however you might look at it, proves that he is working with a very advanced science and this should give all those who want proof all the proof they need.

The key to embracing that science is righteousness and this is achieved through the meekness of Jesus  Christ and those that follow that meekness will inherit the Earth.

[Outrider]

The proof that there is a God, of the power and design Jesus Christ taught us about, is proven by the millions who have sought sanctity in Jesus' words.

By which logic Allah is real, Buddha is real, Ghanesh is real, Thor was real (he might not be any more, who knows). By the same logic, given the millions of atheists, none of them exist.

Because many others have sought sanctity in other, false gods, shows the intensity of the hatred that builds up around us and inflicts appalling injury upon the more caring in this world.

How can the same argument - number of believers - mean two different results for 'arbitrarily accepted real god' and 'arbitrarily defined false gods'?

This is why false prophets are able to tamper with the mechanics of righteousness for their own purposes...often selfishness, greed, war-mongering and the adhesion of the masses...as proven by the ancient Egyptians and the like.

It's a possibility, certainty. Anything more than your assertion and the logical fallacy of the argumentum ad populum to back it up?

Jesus died for us to prove the science of resurrection, which, however you might look at it, proves that he is working with a very advanced science and this should give all those who want proof all the proof they need.

If it only gives proof to those who are looking for a reason for it to be true, it probably doesn't constitute proof. The idea of proof is that it's independent of preconception.

The key to embracing that science is righteousness and this is achieved through the meekness of Jesus  Christ and those that follow that meekness will inherit the Earth.

The key to embracing that 'science', it would appear, is failing to understand the word 'science'.

O.

[Owlswing]

All:

The proof that there is a God, of the power and design Jesus Christ taught us about, is proven by the millions who have sought sanctity in Jesus' words.

Because many others have sought sanctity in other, false gods, shows the intensity of the hatred that builds up around us and inflicts appalling injury upon the more caring in this world. This is why false prophets are able to tamper with the mechanics of righteousness for their own purposes...often selfishness, greed, war-mongering and the adhesion of the masses...as proven by the ancient Egyptians and the like.

Jesus died for us to prove the science of resurrection, which, however you might look at it, proves that he is working with a very advanced science and this should give all those who want proof all the proof they need.

The key to embracing that science is righteousness and this is achieved through the meekness of Jesus  Christ and those that follow that meekness will inherit the Earth.

What stupendous, monumental arrogance!

[NicholasMarks]

What stupendous, monumental arrogance!

Read it again Owlswing...I cannot see a word of arrogance...only the desire to help lost sheep find their way through the arrogance and confusion created by man and his arrogant history leaving us all on the tipping point of chaos. Disaster that only Jesus Christ and meekness can save us from and then, only if we follow him (not me) accurately.

[Owlswing]

Read it again Owlswing...I cannot see a word of arrogance...only the desire to help lost sheep find their way through the arrogance and confusion created by man and his arrogant history leaving us all on the tipping point of chaos. Disaster that only Jesus Christ and meekness can save us from and then, only if we follow him (not me) accurately.

NO - the arrogance is in your attitude of "my way or the highway" - your truth is that and that alone YOUR truth - NOT mine!

[NicholasMarks]

NO - the arrogance is in your attitude of "my way or the highway" - your truth is that and that alone YOUR truth - NOT mine!

That's ok Owlswing...It is a bit like me walking along the canal bank and I see you struggling in the water. I jump in and try to rescue you but you say,'go away' you are not fit to rescue me...and after a few serious efforts to overcome your stubbornness I realise that I might drown too so I am forced to leave you. But here is the rub...Jesus Christ didn't leave you, nor anyone else for that matter because he left a science that can resurrect you until Almighty God says enough is enough and after one last effort allows you to follow your own fate...which the Bible calls...eternal damnation.

[BeRational]

That's ok Owlswing...It is a bit like me walking along the canal bank and I see you struggling in the water. I jump in and try to rescue you but you say,'go away' you are not fit to rescue me...and after a few serious efforts to overcome your stubbornness I realise that I might drown too so I am forced to leave you. But here is the rub...Jesus Christ didn't leave you, nor anyone else for that matter because he left a science that can resurrect you until Almighty God says enough is enough and after one last effort allows you to follow your own fate...which the Bible calls...eternal damnation.

It's not like that at all.

There there is a real canal filled with real water.

You only have an imaginary friend solving an imaginary problem.

[NicholasMarks]

It's not like that at all.

There there is a real canal filled with real water.

You only have an imaginary friend solving an imaginary problem.

For your reasoning to work Outrider you must prove, not just to me but to your entire audience that the universe doesn't hold other worlds which support other lives and who don't have the ability and the science to do amazing things, well recorded with the weight of argument fully against you...plus the fact that they are showing a distinct level of meekness towards us...except for the evil contingent who, we are warned, are very evil.

In fact...I am reasoning to myself, the reason they are all benign at the moment is thanks to Jesus Christ stamping Almighty God's authority on this planet 2000 years ago.   

[Outrider]

For your reasoning to work Outrider you must prove, not just to me but to your entire audience that the universe doesn't hold other worlds which support other lives and who don't have the ability and the science to do amazing things, well recorded with the weight of argument fully against you...

Uh, no I don't. For my reasoning to work you have to continue to fail to make a coherent case, so I can continue to dismiss what you say as without rational basis.

plus the fact that they are showing a distinct level of meekness towards us...except for the evil contingent who, we are warned, are very evil.

I was warned of many evil things as a child - most of them, it turns out, weren't real.

In fact...I am reasoning to myself, the reason they are all benign at the moment is thanks to Jesus Christ stamping Almighty God's authority on this planet 2000 years ago.

Jesus is Ultron done right? And your evidence for this is... 'Accurate' analysis of your giant book of fairy-tales, no doubt?

O.

[BeRational]

For your reasoning to work Outrider you must prove, not just to me but to your entire audience that the universe doesn't hold other worlds which support other lives and who don't have the ability and the science to do amazing things, well recorded with the weight of argument fully against you...plus the fact that they are showing a distinct level of meekness towards us...except for the evil contingent who, we are warned, are very evil.

In fact...I am reasoning to myself, the reason they are all benign at the moment is thanks to Jesus Christ stamping Almighty God's authority on this planet 2000 years ago.

What?
What are you drinking, and in what quantity?
This is potty!

[BashfulAnthony]

"Jesus is Ultron done right? And your evidence for this is... 'Accurate' analysis of your giant book of fairy-tales, no doubt?"  As soon as I read someone talking about "fairy tales,"  I look elsewhere.  It is so juvenile.

[Outrider]

"Jesus is Ultron done right? And your evidence for this is... 'Accurate' analysis of your giant book of fairy-tales, no doubt?"  As soon as I read someone talking about "fairy tales,"  I look elsewhere.  It is so juvenile.

That's how I'd feel about people reading them if it weren't for their blowing themselves up in crowded restaurants, bombing planes, selling people into slavery, voting against equality measures in advanced democracies...

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

That's how I'd feel about people reading them if it weren't for their blowing themselves up in crowded restaurants, bombing planes, selling people into slavery, voting against equality measures in advanced democracies...

O.

I'm referring to the Bible, not the Qu'ran.  Unless,of course you mean the Bible, in which case you'll provide examples, of course, of where it advocates any of your descriptions:  and give examples of actual incidents.

[Owlswing]

That's ok Owlswing...It is a bit like me walking along the canal bank and I see you struggling in the water. I jump in and try to rescue you but you say,'go away' you are not fit to rescue me...and after a few serious efforts to overcome your stubbornness I realise that I might drown too so I am forced to leave you. But here is the rub...Jesus Christ didn't leave you, nor anyone else for that matter because he left a science that can resurrect you until Almighty God says enough is enough and after one last effort allows you to follow your own fate...which the Bible calls...eternal damnation.

Listen to me - and this time I mean LISTEN!

I gave up Christianity and my belief in your Jesus Christ because when I really, really, needed him and his support and his help, when I earnestly, on my knees in the house of his father begged and pleaded for his help night after night for a week and a half I got Jack Shit - fucking blind sodding silence, zip, nothing nada!

You take take him and all your protestations that he loves me, that his father loves loves me and you can shove them where the sun don't shine with the sharp edges outwards!   

Do you understand now?

[NicholasMarks]

Listen to me - and this time I mean LISTEN!

I gave up Christianity and my belief in your Jesus Christ because when I really, really, needed him and his support and his help, when I earnestly, on my knees in the house of his father begged and pleaded for his help night after night for a week and a half I got Jack Shit - fucking blind sodding silence, zip, nothing nada!

You take take him and all your protestations that he loves me, that his father loves loves me and you can shove them where the sun don't shine with the sharp edges outwards!   

Do you understand now?

Of course I understand that Owlswing...If I remember correctly, Floo has a similar story...Many of us have been through similar dilemmas and found the same void and I have no intention of preaching any other view than the one you reached under those circumstances. These things happen because there are many influences in our lives, most of them destructive, but the one pattern of life that isn't destructive is righteousness and we have got to realise that we can't just switch it on...we must follow it and see how it upbuilds our inner structure and promises resurrection, and a time when all tears will be wiped from our eyes...but it is Jesus' accurate teaching that offers this...iniquity is just a subterfuge though many follow its distorted faith.

[Outrider]

I'm referring to the Bible, not the Qu'ran.  Unless,of course you mean the Bible, in which case you'll provide examples, of course, of where it advocates any of your descriptions:  and give examples of actual incidents.

Sorry, I'm supposed to differentiate between fairy-tales? You don't seem to appreciate that in supporting the idea that 'religion' has value, in being an apologist for religion, you are part of the wall of acceptability that these arseholes hide behind.

Their interpretation of their baseless nonsense is exactly as valid as your interpretation of your baseless nonsense - if we have to respect your right to your beliefs we have to respect their right to their beliefs. However, in exactly the same way that you don't have to respect the content of their beliefs or the source of their beliefs because it's palpably mental, we don't have to respect the content or source of your beliefs for exactly the same reason.

You don't appear to make that connection, you appear to think there's something qualitatively different between your faith position and their's, but so far as I can see it's different names for the same nonsense.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Sorry, I'm supposed to differentiate between fairy-tales? You don't seem to appreciate that in supporting the idea that 'religion' has value, in being an apologist for religion, you are part of the wall of acceptability that these arseholes hide behind.

Their interpretation of their baseless nonsense is exactly as valid as your interpretation of your baseless nonsense - if we have to respect your right to your beliefs we have to respect their right to their beliefs. However, in exactly the same way that you don't have to respect the content of their beliefs or the source of their beliefs because it's palpably mental, we don't have to respect the content or source of your beliefs for exactly the same reason.

You don't appear to make that connection, you appear to think there's something qualitatively different between your faith position and their's, but so far as I can see it's different names for the same nonsense.

O.

I was about to answer, but when I saw the tone of your remarks, so I decided to sweep some leaves up instead.     

[floo]

Listen to me - and this time I mean LISTEN!

I gave up Christianity and my belief in your Jesus Christ because when I really, really, needed him and his support and his help, when I earnestly, on my knees in the house of his father begged and pleaded for his help night after night for a week and a half I got Jack Shit - fucking blind sodding silence, zip, nothing nada!

You take take him and all your protestations that he loves me, that his father loves loves me and you can shove them where the sun don't shine with the sharp edges outwards!   

Do you understand now?

As a child I really needed Jesus to come through for me when I had a problem which seemed so serious to me, it kept me awake at nights for a couple of years. I even briefly contemplated suicide. I prayed and prayed for Jesus to give me some sign he was there for me but I never did receive one! It was no wonder my faith disappeared when the doubts became overwhelming.

[floo]

Of course I understand that Owlswing...If I remember correctly, Floo has a similar story...Many of us have been through similar dilemmas and found the same void and I have no intention of preaching any other view than the one you reached under those circumstances. These things happen because there are many influences in our lives, most of them destructive, but the one pattern of life that isn't destructive is righteousness and we have got to realise that we can't just switch it on...we must follow it and see how it upbuilds our inner structure and promises resurrection, and a time when all tears will be wiped from our eyes...but it is Jesus' accurate teaching that offers this...iniquity is just a subterfuge though many follow its distorted faith.

NM if Jesus can't see his way to responding to someone who desperately needs him, 'especially a child, he either doesn't give a damn, or much more likely is long dead.

[NicholasMarks]

NM if Jesus can't see his way to responding to someone who desperately needs him, 'especially a child, he either doesn't give a damn, or much more likely is long dead.

Our problem Floo is that Almighty God has decreed that the evil and the good must live side by side until Judgment Day. This means that all the evil influences are being played out all around us all the time and many evil influences affect many people and the only protection we have is the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.

You would think that many people who have been hurt by these evil influences would say to themselves 'I will follow Jesus according to what is written rather than what is portrayed' but they don't they turn to iniquity. Hence they are inflicted with a teaching that has no power.

How can you harness God's fountain of living waters from an agent of iniquity??

[Outrider]

I was about to answer, but when I saw the tone of your remarks, so I decided to sweep some leaves up instead.     

You can choose to remain silent on the issue if you wish, of course, and I am free to infer from your silence that you acknowledge the point and couldn't find a rebuttal hidden amongst that detritus - but at least your lawn will look nice.

O.

[Outrider]

Our problem Floo is that Almighty God has decreed that the evil and the good must live side by side until Judgment Day.

But Voldemort has decreed that the muggles must be exterminated - how do you balance these two competing requirements?

This means that all the evil influences are being played out all around us all the time and many evil influences affect many people and the only protection we have is the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.

Really? The only defence you have is your imaginary friend? How about, say, political activism, labour unions, the legal system, community and social action. When your religion says 'suck it up, these things happen', what makes you think that's serving your interests and not, say, those of the 'evil influences' that would regard opposition as a hindrance?

You would think that many people who have been hurt by these evil influences would say to themselves 'I will follow Jesus according to what is written rather than what is portrayed' but they don't they turn to iniquity.

The problem here is that you can replace 'Jesus' with 'Muhammed' or 'Joseph Smith' or 'L Ron Hubbard' or 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' and it's equally as valid. How do I choose with unevidenced nonsense to follow?

Hence they are inflicted with a teaching that has no power.

And yet those who have had the most success fighting back against those 'evil influences' are those that have most completely done away with the nonsense of religion: secular countries, countries with higher proportions of atheists, are happier, healthier, more equitable places.

How can you harness God's fountain of living waters from an agent of iniquity??

How can you live in the 21st Century and still believe this 1st Century bollocks?

O.

[NicholasMarks]

Outrider:

It isn't important what you think Outrider it is more a question of what you believe. I believe that the universe is made from an indestructible, superabundant, invisible, dynamic energy. It is first made known to us in Isaiah as the force, owned by Almighty God, as the primary force behind Creation. I further believe that Jesus Christ, in the name of his father, was teaching us how to harness this force for our very best interests. Further, I believe that the state of this world today is a direct result of mankind abandoning the love, good order and honesty of the Holy Bible and we are reaping the results of our greed, selfishness, and lack of care  for our fellow men.

What it all boils down to is that I have a hope in the future even if it means resurrection whilst you can only offer war, and more war, and eternal damnation...No choice really. 

[Outrider]

It isn't important what you think Outrider it is more a question of what you believe.

Religion in a nutshell - it's not important to think, truthiness over truth.

I believe that the universe is made from an indestructible, superabundant, invisible, dynamic energy.

Why do you believe that? On what basis did you come to that determination?

It is first made known to us in Isaiah as the force, owned by Almighty God, as the primary force behind Creation.

No, it's not 'made known', this isn't about thinking, this is about believing: it's first ASSERTED in Isaiah.

I further believe that Jesus Christ, in the name of his father, was teaching us how to harness this force for our very best interests.

Why do you believe that and not Muhammed's account of God's desires, or the Old Testament account, or Joseph Smith's take on it, or L Ron Hubbard's 'revelation' that it's all a myth and the Thetans are waiting...

Further, I believe that the state of this world today is a direct result of mankind abandoning the love, good order and honesty of the Holy Bible and we are reaping the results of our greed, selfishness, and lack of care  for our fellow men.

And yet the world is improving, and it's improving most in those place which abandon the superstition the most. Believing in the absence of evidence is one thing, but believing contrary to the evidence is just stupidity, surely?

What it all boils down to is that I have a hope in the future even if it means resurrection whilst you can only offer war, and more war, and eternal damnation...No choice really.

No, I offer realistic hope - if we put in effort we can reap rewards and make this a better place. What I don't offer is make-believe 'next lives' to placate and pacify people into just accepting their lot in this one.

O.