A mess of a species?

[Rhiannon]

I borrowed the title from a tweet by that well-known philosopher Gary Linekar following the Paris attack.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/665490743826493440

Is he right?
 

[Bubbles]

"It's just incomprehensible that human beings can be so evil to innocent, fellow human beings. What a mess of a species we are!"


Yes I think he is!

But it's not the whole story, we can also be kind, thoughtful  and creative etc.

We are both.

It depends what trait/value people choose to take on different issues.

 

[Rhiannon]

I think perhaps the mess is necessary for us to see the best of ourselves. When elements of humanity does its worst, the rest responds with acts of kindness, fortitude and love, large and small.

Of course it would be better if we could live from a place where we don't need the bad to push us into the good, but we don't seem to be capable of that. We seem to forget what we are capable of, we go to sleep.

[BashfulAnthony]

I think perhaps the mess is necessary for us to see the best of ourselves. When elements of humanity does its worst, the rest responds with acts of kindness, fortitude and love, large and small.

Of course it would be better if we could live from a place where we don't need the bad to push us into the good, but we don't seem to be capable of that. We seem to forget what we are capable of, we go to sleep.

Right. We become complacent...

[Rhiannon]

You need to learn the difference between realism and complacency, BA.

[BashfulAnthony]

You need to learn the difference between realism and complacency, BA.

Patronising me again.  I know the difference very well.  It doesn't alter the fact that when faced with unpleasant or wrong attitudes, you do not simply say," that's reality;"  you try and change things, for the better.  That's how Man has moved forward

[Rhiannon]

Accepting things for how they are does not mean surrendering any desire to make a difference. It just allows you to approach things with clarity.

[BashfulAnthony]

Accepting things for how they are does not mean surrendering any desire to make a difference. It just allows you to approach things with clarity.

That is simply a contradiction:  accepting things as they are is the opposite of making a difference.

[Owlswing]

Accepting things for how they are does not mean surrendering any desire to make a difference. It just allows you to approach things with clarity.

Goddess give me the strength to change those things that I cannot accept;

The strength to accept those things that I cannot change

And the wisdom to know the difference.

[Rhiannon]

If you don't know where you are starting from, how can you move forward with any sense of direction?

But you missed the context of my post; we go to sleep when things aren't so bad. We shouldn't need suffering to wake us up into the best we can be.

[OH MY WORLD!]

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"   Jeremiah 17:9

[Rhiannon]

It's a shame if that's what you really believe, JC.

[Shaker]

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"   Jeremiah 17:9

Cardiothoracic surgeons, fortunately.

[OH MY WORLD!]

The human is the most dangerous creature, it is deceitful above all else. I don't know what's in your heart Rhi, nor you mine.

[Shaker]

The human is the most dangerous creature, it is deceitful above all else. I don't know what's in your heart Rhi, nor you mine.

In both cases you can make an educated guess on the basis of the way people post.

[OH MY WORLD!]

The Shake,
So you admit you don't know what is truly in another persons heart. I mean you posted a while back about children being worthless, is that truly how you feel? I don't know your heart but the human is the most dangerous creature. Some people post here, giving a certain impression, and you can find them posting elsewhere leaving you with a totally different impression. We don't know each others hearts and guess work doesn't cut it, humans are deceitful.

[Shaker]

The Shake,
So you admit you don't know what is truly in another persons heart.

Of course. But this means that other humans are as complex as we are and have uncountable motivations and drives and reasons going on, conscious and unconscious, for not revealing everything to everyone all the time. It doesn't mean that human beings are innately and intrinsically bad as Christianity holds as a fundamental tenet and which is one of the most pernicious and obnoxious things about a generally ugly religion.

I mean you posted a while back about children being worthless, is that truly how you feel?

That's not what I posted - it was a quotation of Michael Faraday designed to refute the sort of bleak utilitarianism which sees value only in things which have some sort of direct practical use.

I don't know your heart but the human is the most dangerous creature. Some people post here, giving a certain impression, and you can find them posting elsewhere leaving you with a totally different impression. We don't know each others hearts and guess work doesn't cut it, humans are deceitful.

That's because chimps are. It would be extremely odd if we were otherwise.

[Owlswing]

The Shake,
So you admit you don't know what is truly in another persons heart. I mean you posted a while back about children being worthless, is that truly how you feel? I don't know your heart but the human is the most dangerous creature. Some people post here, giving a certain impression, and you can find them posting elsewhere leaving you with a totally different impression. We don't know each others hearts and guess work doesn't cut it, humans are deceitful.

Are you speaking as an expert?

[Hope]

Patronising me again.  I know the difference very well.  It doesn't alter the fact that when faced with unpleasant or wrong attitudes, you do not simply say," that's reality;"  you try and change things, for the better.  That's how Man has moved forward

But BA, doesn't one have to acknowledge what is 'reality' for now, before one can seek to change things?

[Hope]

That is simply a contradiction:  accepting things as they are is the opposite of making a difference.

I'm not convinced, BA: 'accepting' what is the situation now doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't going to try to change things. 

[OH MY WORLD!]

Shaker is wrong of course. What a person writes will not show you their heart, it could all be deception. One can be a darn good deception spotter. To do that I would want to look at Shaker as he talks. Now after that I would have a better take on his heart but still I could not claim to know it.

https://youtu.be/P_6vDLq64gE?t=21


Hell Matty, my number one fan!

[Owlswing]

Shaker is wrong of course. What a person writes will not show you their heart, it could all be deception. One can be a darn good deception spotter. To do that I would want to look at Shaker as he talks. Now after that I would have a better take on his heart but still I could not claim to know it.

https://youtu.be/P_6vDLq64gE?t=21


Hell Matty, my number one fan!

Then your post is total bull!

[Owlswing]

Hell Matty, my number one fan!

I wouldn't be your fan, much less your Number 1 fan, if you and I were the last two humans left on Earth.

I have no doubt that in that case you would follow me everwher I went as you do on here with your stupid comments - and, if I found that I could not escape you any other way I would commit suicide and leave you to the total insanity of loneliness.

[Samuel]

Hmmmm...

Well actually I don't think he is right. We are what we are. Violence is ingrained in our species so in that way it isnt a sign that we are somehow malfunctioning. Adult Bears will kill the young of rival males. Does that make them a mess if a species? No. We too easily forget that we are animals.

Not that any of that excuses us for one minute. But it is by our own standards that we should judge ourselves. Otherwise it's just another version of the religious appeal to some greater power. In this case nature, or evolution... fucking bastard for making us so shit. No. We must take responsibility. We must save ourselves.

[Shaker]

We too easily forget that we are animals.

Forget? Some people don't even acknowledge the fact.