The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth

[Alan Burns]

I just came across this interesting and thought provoking article showing a Christian view of the Paris attacks:

The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth

Why are the so-called Christian countries so spineless in the face of the Muslim terror?

Because for over fifty years we have gradually come to value goodness without truth.

What I mean by this is that we have become complacent about our Christian faith. We have drifted into either lax unbelief, hedonistic agnosticism and finally outright atheism.

In abandoning our religion we have abandoned truth, believing that it is possible–and even preferable–to be good without religion. We have concluded that the weakest and most shallow forms of goodness are the only kind there are, and have taken from the Christian religion the easiest, laziest and most sloppy aspects and rejected all the rest.

We have smashed and grabbed the Christian store and taken all the shiniest and most worthless trinkets thinking they were all there was on offer, and we have re-made our own atheistic humanistic religion out of the pickings.

Western Christian liberals have therefore promoted something which they think they have salvaged from Christianity, but it is as much like real Christianity as a paste diamond is to the real gemstone.

Their religion has become one of bland tolerance. They mistake political correctness for charity, shallow optimism for hope and an ideology for faith.

As a result they have opened their borders to every kind of horror, refusing to the end to believe that such horrors from hell really do exist. They have opened their own borders to Islamic extremists who have stated openly that they wish to destroy everything Christian and take over their country and turn it into an Islamic state.

Blind as the fundamentalists they deplore, the liberals’ ideology is a counterfeit form of faith which forbids them to castigate, exclude or expel anyone and refuses to acknowledge that they have such a thing as an enemy.

Their shallow optimism is their substitute for hope and this blinds them to the fact that their birth rate is below the replacement level, that their culture is doomed and their country about to collapse.

Their tolerant political correctness is their artificial form of charity which is spineless and gutless and has nothing to offer except more bland tolerance and acceptance of everything and everyone. These people would probably tolerate and grant “rights” to a serial killer who entered their home.

The Paris attacks should be a wake up call.

True goodness can never be separated from Truth, and Christian truth is never soft, weak or spineless.

Christian goodness is always combined with uncompromising Truth. It is always courageous, true and bold. It answers violence with defiant love. It understands that a there is such a thing as evil, and allows that when all other attempts at peace fail, then irrational rage and violence must be met with a reply of rational, planned and measured justice.

[Nearly Sane]

What thoughts does it provoke for you, Alan?

[Alan Burns]

What thoughts does it provoke for you, Alan?

To me it is a stark reminder that we need a saviour to deliver us from the evils of this world.

Jesus conquered evil with defiant love - not with retaliation or revenge.

[Shaker]

To me it is a stark reminder that we need a saviour to deliver us from the evils of this world.

What's with this "we" business? You might; I don't.

[Nearly Sane]

What thoughts does it provoke for you, Alan?

To me it is a stark reminder that we need a saviour to deliver us from the evils of this world.

Jesus conquered evil with defiant love - not with retaliation or revenge.

so you disagree with what appears to be the central position of the article?

[Nearly Sane]

The article seems only interesting in the amount of obfuscation it goes to, to hide what appears to be a cry to close borders, bomb muzzies,  and create a theocracy where we don't tolerate anything non Christian. My provoked thought is why Alan would find such a neo-con view interesting.

[Outrider]

What thoughts does it provoke for you, Alan?

To me it is a stark reminder that we need a saviour to deliver us from the evils of this world.

Jesus conquered evil with defiant love - not with retaliation or revenge.

I like the sentiment - we have a better culture than theirs, and we lose something if we resort to their tactics.

It does also, though, make me wonder who on Earth thinks that France is in any way a 'Christian' country?

O.

[SusanDoris]

Well, I've listened to the OP once and certainly don't intend to listen to it again. I just hope that the article referred to is not read by too many impressionable young people.

[ad_orientem]

I just came across this interesting and thought provoking article showing a Christian view of the Paris attacks:

The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth

Why are the so-called Christian countries so spineless in the face of the Muslim terror?

Because for over fifty years we have gradually come to value goodness without truth.

What I mean by this is that we have become complacent about our Christian faith. We have drifted into either lax unbelief, hedonistic agnosticism and finally outright atheism.

In abandoning our religion we have abandoned truth, believing that it is possible–and even preferable–to be good without religion. We have concluded that the weakest and most shallow forms of goodness are the only kind there are, and have taken from the Christian religion the easiest, laziest and most sloppy aspects and rejected all the rest.

We have smashed and grabbed the Christian store and taken all the shiniest and most worthless trinkets thinking they were all there was on offer, and we have re-made our own atheistic humanistic religion out of the pickings.

Western Christian liberals have therefore promoted something which they think they have salvaged from Christianity, but it is as much like real Christianity as a paste diamond is to the real gemstone.

Their religion has become one of bland tolerance. They mistake political correctness for charity, shallow optimism for hope and an ideology for faith.

As a result they have opened their borders to every kind of horror, refusing to the end to believe that such horrors from hell really do exist. They have opened their own borders to Islamic extremists who have stated openly that they wish to destroy everything Christian and take over their country and turn it into an Islamic state.

Blind as the fundamentalists they deplore, the liberals’ ideology is a counterfeit form of faith which forbids them to castigate, exclude or expel anyone and refuses to acknowledge that they have such a thing as an enemy.

Their shallow optimism is their substitute for hope and this blinds them to the fact that their birth rate is below the replacement level, that their culture is doomed and their country about to collapse.

Their tolerant political correctness is their artificial form of charity which is spineless and gutless and has nothing to offer except more bland tolerance and acceptance of everything and everyone. These people would probably tolerate and grant “rights” to a serial killer who entered their home.

The Paris attacks should be a wake up call.

True goodness can never be separated from Truth, and Christian truth is never soft, weak or spineless.

Christian goodness is always combined with uncompromising Truth. It is always courageous, true and bold. It answers violence with defiant love. It understands that a there is such a thing as evil, and allows that when all other attempts at peace fail, then irrational rage and violence must be met with a reply of rational, planned and measured justice.

The geezer that wrote that is on the money.

[Alan Burns]

What thoughts does it provoke for you, Alan?

To me it is a stark reminder that we need a saviour to deliver us from the evils of this world.

Jesus conquered evil with defiant love - not with retaliation or revenge.

so you disagree with what appears to be the central position of the article?

If you read the last paragraph of the article, it fully concurs with my stated view.

[Nearly Sane]

But the article says nothing about Jesus coming back and doing anything. The clear implication is some form of action on behalf of the Christians without any direct messiah involvement. As stated, I reAd it as bombing people (which if true makes the entirety of the article a bit of a nonsense since we, the so-called integrative liberals have been doing a shitload of that).

[Nearly Sane]

I am interested that both ad_o and Alan B seem to agree with the article. I have already covered my reading of what it says, I would be interested if they could outline any difference they have with that reading.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Alan,

planned and measured justice.

What would that be?

Western Christian liberals have therefore promoted something which they think they have salvaged from Christianity, but it is as much like real Christianity as a paste diamond is to the real gemstone.

Yes I suppose I am a Western Christian liberal still searching for the real gemstone, still searching for real Christianity, in the minute silence today I prayed for the relatives of all victims of this atrocity, God seemed so far away ( not Jesus, yes you will tell me Jesus is God, next question!! ) but your OP reminds me ( like so many Christian posts ) of Mathew 7.

Gonnagle.

[Alan Burns]

Dear Alan,

planned and measured justice.

What would that be?

Some answers in a follow up article by the same author:

Paris Attacks: How Should One Respond?

One of the things which secular Westerners find so mind blowing about Islamic terrorist attacks is the irrationality of the evil.

We cannot understand a religion that drives young men to such mindless barbarism.

We don’t have the tools in our toolbox. We simply cannot understand their culture, their mentality, their religion or their reasoning.

In our materialistic, pleasantly hedonistic, tolerant lifestyle we cannot comprehend a worldview that demands such utter self sacrifice, murder of innocents and wanton destruction.

Even those who no longer believe are the products of two thousand years of Christian culture and the development of a Christian worldview. Even if we are not religious we believe in goodness, forgiveness, kindness and self control. We believe in honesty, rationality and the ability to compromise and live together. We believe in beauty, innocence, purity and the pursuit of genuine love. Even if we are hypocrites and failures we believe in these things and view the world in this way.

We can’t imagine what it is like to follow a religion that demands the kidnapping and torture of children and the slaughter of innocents.

When faced with the carnage what do we do?

First, I think we naturally do what humans do. We cry out for an answer and yearn for revenge. We want to retaliate. We want to wipe these scum from the face of the earth. We want to meet rage with rage and seek vengeance.

However, as  Christians we step up to stand with the victims in grief, compassion and prayer. We hold them in our silence, incomprehension and hope somehow that our support and solidarity will help them see a way through the mindless dark.

Then we step back from the lust for revenge. Justice and self defence are justified, but the cycle of revenge and bloodshed becomes endless.

Despite the murder and mayhem we insist that the love of Christ is stronger. Barbarism has been defeated by Christianity many times in the past, but Christianity has not defeated barbarism through violence, but through the gradual, painstaking heroism of mission. Think of St Francis who wanted to meet the Sultan and share the faith with him in enthusiasm and love. Think of the early Christians who countered the barbaric tribes of Europe by their example of community, civilization and true Christian love. Think of the countless missionaries who went into barbaric lands and faced death, torture and incredible hardships to live with the enemy and simply radiate from their lives a different way of living. Think of the martyrs who were slain by the barbarians–who were then converted by their innocence, their courage and their noble faith.

This is the Christian response, for each one of us to live faithfully and courageously as little Christs–showing the power and the glory of courageous Christianity which can overcome all evil.

[Rhiannon]

It isn't only Christians who stand with the victims and who don't seek violent revenge. But you know it's pointless to talk about resolving this with religion, surely?

[Nearly Sane]

Interesting that the author wants the right to be a missionary to other countries but wants to stop Islam from being touted here.

And as ever cherry picking of history ignoring the conquests done by so called Christian nations and the barbarism to other forms of Christian sects. BTW there is nothing in the follow up post which touches on an explanation of what planned and measured justice or takes into account that the murdering thugs in Paris, Beirut and Bagdad thought they were indulging in planned and measured justice.

[Outrider]

We are not, in the Western World, the product of religious refinement. We have arrived where we are by consistently shedding the trappings of superstitious nonsense as more information became available. Yes, there are some things that various religions supported that we have maintained, but because they have validity that religion recognised and used, not because we owe religion for them.

Religion gives us these barbarians slaying people in the streets for not accepting their version of a non-existent comfort blanket. Religion didn't give us law, it appropriated it and we've secularised it and taken it back. Religion didn't give us the Golden Rule, though some variants of it pretend to its throne in varying degrees.

Christianity was the Crusades, was the Dark Ages. Modern society in the Western World is the Englightenment and the Ages of Reason, Industry and Information eroding that nonsense - Christianity is no different to what we're seeing from Islam, it's just different names.

We will not defeat this by being 'little Jesuses', but by being rational, sensible, human beings - by realising our own paths, by accepting responsibility for our own actions, by refusing to accede to the sensibilities of bronze age tribes.

We will get through this by educating people, not indoctrinating them, by demonstrating reason and a better way of life, not by demonstrating superstition and a different set of prejudices.

I appreciate that the guy is talking about loving thy neighbour and turning the other cheek, but those sentiments don't need Jesus to deliver them, they stand on their own merits. By dragging Christianity into it you just turn it into a competition between two different manifestly wrong pieces of nonsense, one of which we've already rendered virtually eradicated - let's not breathe life into now.

O.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Alan,

Yes, some answers

We can’t imagine what it is like to follow a religion that demands the kidnapping and torture of children and the slaughter of innocents.

That sentence makes me uneasy, if, if the perpetrators of these atrocities are following a religion ( Islam ) then they have perverted it beyond all comprehension.

First, I think we naturally do what humans do. We cry out for an answer and yearn for revenge. We want to retaliate. We want to wipe these scum from the face of the earth. We want to meet rage with rage and seek vengeance.

Right now, as I type this I am struggling to see where I point the finger of vengeance, the terrorists, the USA, Britain, CoS, CoE, The Vatican, so much we could have done, how different it could have been if we had stepped away from our greed, how different it could have been if the true Christian had extended the hand of friendship towards our Muslim cousins/brothers/sisters, there was a brief moment ( seems a long time ago now ) when there was a cry of The Cresent and the Cross are as one.

However, as  Christians we step up to stand with the victims in grief, compassion and prayer. We hold them in our silence, incomprehension and hope somehow that our support and solidarity will help them see a way through the mindless dark.

Not enough.

Think of St Francis who wanted to meet the Sultan and share the faith with him in enthusiasm and love.

Yes St Francis is the more we need, St Francis gave up everything, world leaders should think a little more like that man.

Some answers Alan but then nobody has all the answers.

Gonnagle.

[Outrider]

That sentence makes me uneasy, if, if the perpetrators of these atrocities are following a religion ( Islam ) then they have perverted it beyond all comprehension.

Why is their version a perversion, but the version that tends towards decency regardless of deities is somehow right? How do you decide which is the perversion in the absence of anything definitive? There are just versions you like and versions you don't like.

Some answers Alan but then nobody has all the answers.

Religion has all the answers for all the people, but none of them are right or wrong, they're just answers. Unfortunately, religion also asks more, harder, bloodier questions, and those questions don't add anything at all.

What the world needs is fewer reasons to segregate and divide and ostracise people, fewer reasons to point someone out as 'different' - even if everything else bad is stripped from it, religion still does that for no discernible benefit.

O.

[Owlswing]

What thoughts does it provoke for you, Alan?

To me it is a stark reminder that we need a saviour to deliver us from the evils of this world.

Jesus conquered evil with defiant love - not with retaliation or revenge.

Then get him to stop these bloody terrorists  -  TOMORROW for preference!

He can't or won't or he already would have!

[ad_orientem]

That sentence makes me uneasy, if, if the perpetrators of these atrocities are following a religion ( Islam ) then they have perverted it beyond all comprehension.

All they need do is look to the founder of their relugion, Gonners. It's in the very DNA of Islam. Islam is the problem. In another act f complete madness we're letting hundreds of thousands of adherents of that religion into Europe.

[Nearly Sane]

Just to note that there is quite a lot of god supported kidnapping, raping, and killing of children in the OT and certainly William Lane Craig and to an extent the other Alan on here can imagine what it is like to follow such a religion.

[Outrider]

That sentence makes me uneasy, if, if the perpetrators of these atrocities are following a religion ( Islam ) then they have perverted it beyond all comprehension.

All they need do is look to the founder of their relugion, Gonners. It's in the very DNA of Islam. Islam is the problem. In another act f complete madness we're letting hundreds of thousands of adherents of that religion into Europe.

We already have hundreds of thousands of adherents to a violent religion in Europe - Christians. That we've largely tamed them shows that it's possible - we just need to seep that secular, rational, equitable, civilised cutlure out into their world. Let's stop building up their martyr complex by sending bombs and start sending wireless routers and DVDs, food parcels and books, ideas and concepts.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

Since the OT is in the 'DNA' of your religion, ad_o, and since the god in that supports mass slaughter including children, then I would suggest your post is arguing you are a dangerous person liable to kill innocents.

[Nearly Sane]

Indeed it's only 70 years ago since a predominantly Christian nation decided not to tolerate another religion (amazingly enough also based on this influential god chappie) and that was a triumph of love.