Author Topic: Christianity banned from cinemas  (Read 99494 times)

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #275 on: November 23, 2015, 05:05:56 PM »
I'll happily review pretty much any link on any subject, I don't promise to accept your take (or that of a Sky News journalist), but I like to think that I'll review it and explain why I feel as I do.

I'm afraid you didn't. You cited a news article which backed your view, referring to a paper that didn't.

I said I wasn't aware of any links that backed your claim - the one you cited, as I pointed out, didn't do that. I explained why, and you're more than welcome to look at the original report - as I have done - rather than rely on the Sky News reporter's take on it without any sort of critical assessment of Sky News' market and the spin they would put on it.

I don't need to tell the authors of the report what I think, I reported their take from their paper. I needed to tell you, who had instead believed the journalist's slant on it. I don't really need to tell the journalist - I suspect he'd either fail to appreciate the difference of nuance, or he knows exactly what he's doing and would suggest that it's good journalism to give the story 'an angle'.

O.

Then contact Sky, and tell them you are not happy on the journalist's "take."  As far as I can see, he was simply reporting the thrust of the study.  If you think his coverage was slanted, or inadequate, make your point to his superiors.  It is unprofessional to mis-report, or inject your own slant.   
BA.

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Gordon

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #276 on: November 23, 2015, 05:06:47 PM »
Not really, BR; without Christ one wouldn't have a festival celebrating his birth.

What on earth makes you think that everyone enjoying the forthcoming mid-winter holiday is in any sense celebrating your particular choice of religious myth?

For some of us at least, it is just a holiday that contains a number of 'traditions', Christian or otherwise, that can be picked from or ignored as a matter of personal preference. 

Rhiannon

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #277 on: November 23, 2015, 05:09:53 PM »
I think it's a given that without Christ there'd be no festival celebrating his birth. It's just that other people celebrate a festival by the same name without the religious bits.

Hope

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #278 on: November 23, 2015, 05:13:42 PM »
What on earth makes you think that everyone enjoying the forthcoming mid-winter holiday is in any sense celebrating your particular choice of religious myth?

For some of us at least, it is just a holiday that contains a number of 'traditions', Christian or otherwise, that can be picked from or ignored as a matter of personal preference.
It is folk like yourself who seem to feel that everyone is somehow celebrating the Christian story around which Christmas is all about.  I have never said they are.  Rather, I am pointing out that many have no idea just what the festival of Christmas is actually about, choosing (or perhaps being forced, by ignorance) to celebrate a commercial festival.  It may well be the case that some are celebrating neither, but some other festival that is not known as Christmas or Winter Festival, or whatever.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #279 on: November 23, 2015, 05:16:36 PM »
BA,

Quote
Then contact Sky, and tell them you are not happy on the journalist's "take."  As far as I can see, he was simply reporting the thrust of the study.  If you think his coverage was slanted, or inadequate, make your point to his superiors.  It is unprofessional to mis-report, or inject your own slant.

No, Outy took the trouble to show you that an opinion you expressed is based on a false understanding of the facts. Your response now should either be, "that's not what the journalist did, and here's why" or, "thank you for correcting me Outy, I'll either change my opinion or will cite a study that does in fact support it".

Just throwing dust at it is ungracious at best and dishonest at worst.   
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #280 on: November 23, 2015, 05:17:21 PM »
I think it's a given that without Christ there'd be no festival celebrating his birth. It's just that other people celebrate a festival by the same name without the religious bits.

Good try, Rhiannon.  But there are many who celebrate Christmas, with all the Christian aspects thrown in, who are not Christians  -  I think some are on here.  Some celebrate and pretend they are celebrating some other festival;  and many of them are, I suggest, simply trying to argue away their false participation.
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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #281 on: November 23, 2015, 05:18:09 PM »
I am pointing out that many have no idea just what the festival of Christmas is actually about
What it's "actually" about is whatever you wish to make of it.
Quote
choosing (or perhaps being forced, by ignorance) to celebrate a commercial festival.
Nobody is forced to "celebrate a commercial festival."
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Hope

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #282 on: November 23, 2015, 05:18:31 PM »
I think it's a given that without Christ there'd be no festival celebrating his birth. It's just that other people celebrate a festival by the same name without the religious bits.
'Another festival' that actually has no purpose under the name of 'Christmas'.  At least when religions take over existing festivals, they rename them to fit their new contexts   ;)  I see nothing wrong with pointing out to those caught up in commerciality that there is something more  to Christmas than commercial interests, or merely family time.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Hope

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #283 on: November 23, 2015, 05:19:08 PM »
What it's "actually" about is whatever you wish to make of it.
Would you say the same about Eid, or Dossain?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #284 on: November 23, 2015, 05:19:17 PM »
Hope,

Quote
It is folk like yourself who seem to feel that everyone is somehow celebrating the Christian story around which Christmas is all about.  I have never said they are.  Rather, I am pointing out that many have no idea just what the festival of Christmas is actually about, choosing (or perhaps being forced, by ignorance) to celebrate a commercial festival.  It may well be the case that some are celebrating neither, but some other festival that is not known as Christmas or Winter Festival, or whatever.

The problem here is that what you think christmas is "really" about - ie, the Christian re-interpretation of a pre-existing festival - is not necessarily what others think it's "really" about at all. 
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #285 on: November 23, 2015, 05:19:32 PM »
NS,

To an extent, but the fact remains that academics will generally set out their reasoning: "because X, therefore Y" etc that the rest of us can address with reasoning of our own. The result is either, "you're wrong because of a flaw in your thinking as follows so I disagree with your conclusion", or, "I cannot find a flaw on your reasoning so I must agree with your conclusion".

Contrast that with, "my faith tells me X" and how else can someone respond except with a, "so what"?

As for the constituencies of Bishops, I guess to an extent footfall in churches on a Sunday is a kind of mandate but a more tenuous one I'd say than that of someone elected on the basis of a manifesto.

Except the initial decision here in terms of what should happen is not anything that a moral philosophy professor has any real expertise in. And us just making any such decision on their subjective opinion.  As to setting out their arguments logically, depends,I've seen good ones and bad ones, and that applies to moral philosophy professors, other academics and religious representatives, many of whom are or have been academics. The arguments though at base on morality are based on personal opinion. As already pointed out this sort of take on morality, is not what is taught and studied in moral philisophy.

Any good MP prof would, I suggest, address any such questions hypothetically laying out the if you took a certain moral stance, and laying out a variety of them, that one might decided more likely one thing or another in this case. They would not argue for a particular decision as they should realise that that would not be appropriate for them.

Outrider

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #286 on: November 23, 2015, 05:20:30 PM »
It is folk like yourself who seem to feel that everyone is somehow celebrating the Christian story around which Christmas is all about. I have never said they are.  Rather, I am pointing out that many have no idea just what the festival of Christmas is actually about, choosing (or perhaps being forced, by ignorance) to celebrate a commercial festival.

That's what Christmas is 'actually' about for some people. You are suggesting that Christmas is 'actually' about Jesus - it may have been, once, it might still be for some people, but there are a number of ways and reasons to celebrate Christmas and religious concepts are only one of them.

O.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #287 on: November 23, 2015, 05:21:01 PM »
'Another festival' that actually has no purpose under the name of 'Christmas'.  At least when religions take over existing festivals, they rename them to fit their new contexts   ;)  I see nothing wrong with pointing out to those caught up in commerciality that there is something more  to Christmas than commercial interests, or merely family time.

'Merely' family time? How odd.


Shaker

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #288 on: November 23, 2015, 05:21:45 PM »
Good try, Rhiannon.  But there are many who celebrate Christmas, with all the Christian aspects thrown in, who are not Christians  -  I think some are on here.
Who, and based on what evidence?

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Some celebrate and pretend they are celebrating some other festival
Who are you to say that people are pretending?
Quote
and many of them are, I suggest, simply trying to argue away their false participation.
We have Hope's word for it that an opinion is equal to an assertion which stands in need of substantiation. (Going to come back and bit him on the arse, that one). So where's your evidence for this?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #289 on: November 23, 2015, 05:22:17 PM »
Would you say the same about Eid, or Dossain?
Yes (about Eid - no idea what the other one is).
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #290 on: November 23, 2015, 05:23:48 PM »
'Merely' family time? How odd.
How pathetic.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #291 on: November 23, 2015, 05:24:24 PM »
Who, and based on what evidence?
Who are you to say that people are pretending? We have Hope's word for it that an opinion is equal to an assertion which stands in need of substantiation. (Going to come back and bit him on the arse, that one). So where's your evidence for this?

I think you know full well what people do at Christmas, whatever their religious tendency, or whether they are of no religion.  You protest too much at what I say!

Got your Christmas cards yet?
BA.

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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Rhiannon

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #292 on: November 23, 2015, 05:25:53 PM »
Good try, Rhiannon.  But there are many who celebrate Christmas, with all the Christian aspects thrown in, who are not Christians  -  I think some are on here.  Some celebrate and pretend they are celebrating some other festival;  and many of them are, I suggest, simply trying to argue away their false participation.

Well yes, as the parent of schoolchildren I'll be attending various performances, one of which happens in the most beautiful medieval church. But I'm not doing so because I want to participate in the religious aspects of it.

We all carve out our own meanings for Christmas. I wonder what makes you think that you have the right to try to impose yours on others.

wigginhall

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #293 on: November 23, 2015, 05:27:11 PM »
I see the discussion has moved on, but I think calling this a ban is very weird.   Religious advertising has not been made illegal, it's a commercial decision. 
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Shaker

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #294 on: November 23, 2015, 05:27:37 PM »
I think you know full well what people do at Christmas, whatever their religious tendency, or whether they are of no religion.  You protest too much at what I say!
No, I'm protesting because you seem to be utterly divorced from the reality of what Christmas actually is to the vast majority of the population and what that vast majority actually does. Jesus is not involved, I can assure you. It's precisely and exactly because I know full well what Christmas is and the functions it fulfils that I'm contradicting your ridiculously twee St. Mary Mead in the 1950s version of a modern Christmas.

Quote
Got your Christmas cards yet?
Far too early.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 05:29:27 PM by Shaker »
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #295 on: November 23, 2015, 05:29:24 PM »
At least when religions take over existing festivals, they rename them to fit their new contexts   ;) 
Except in the case of Easter, which I thought was the most important Christian festival of them all, yet the name has nothing to do with Christianity and is likely named after a pagan goddess of the spring.

Aren't you a bit embarrassed that your most important festival is named after a pagan goddess, Hope?

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #296 on: November 23, 2015, 05:30:14 PM »
No, I'm protesting because you seem to be utterly divorced from the reality of what Christmas actually is to the vast majority of the population and what that vast majority actually does. Jesus is not involved, I can assure you.
Far too early.

Some figures to corroborate that, please.

Don't forget to join in the carols when you go down to the shopping centre.    :)
BA.

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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Rhiannon

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #297 on: November 23, 2015, 05:33:00 PM »
You do know that carols are played in shops to get people to buy more stuff, don't you, BA?

Shaker

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #298 on: November 23, 2015, 05:34:12 PM »
Some figures to corroborate that, please.
You could look to the church attendance figures, I dare say, which are very likely highest at Christmas but in relation to the population as a whole are still tiny.

Quote
Don't forget to join in the carols when you go down to the shopping centre.    :)
And waste valuable shopping time? You must be joking.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ippy

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Re: Christianity banned from cinemas
« Reply #299 on: November 23, 2015, 05:35:05 PM »
A touch fanciful, even for you!    So, they have to wheel a religionist out, eh?  That implies there are none none immediately to hand:  so all the contributors must otherwise be atheists then.  Seems fair!

I agree it would be a touch fanciful if it only happened occasionally.

ippy