Christianity banned from cinemas

[Gonnagle]

Dear Wonderful World,

What a wonderful argument, atheists enjoying religious music, an argument within an argument, but this is not the first discussion we have ever had on the subject.

What do atheist feel when they listen to religious music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Y_ztEW1NE

Are you lifted, does your soul rejoice.

Have mercy upon me, O God, after Thy great goodness
According to the multitude of Thy mercies do away mine offences.
Wash me thoroughly from my wickedness: and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my faults: and my sin is ever before me.

That's God creation can make something so beautiful.

Atheism a closed book to me, but I am getting there.

Sorry! the music does carry me away, I digress, we had this discussion or one similar many moons ago, a very talented and highly regarded composer ( atheist )  of religious music ( documentary on the telly regarding Christian music ) stated, to compose religious music I need to moved by the Spirit, or words to that effect.

What do atheists feel when they listen to this.

I can hazard a guess at what you feel, God.

Dear ippy,

Your family enjoy singing Gospel music, brilliant, honestly I think that is wonderful.

What about,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxMEsTcw_pk

God and sinners reconciled.

The Devil has all the best tunes, not by a long chalk.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Bloody hell look at the time,

Before I say goodnight,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRfLl5OEDy8

The weary world rejoices

Gonnagle.

[BashfulAnthony]

Oh, wow... does that mean that if I sing Taylor Swift's 'Blank Space' that I'll be attracted to men?

O.

What's wrong with that?  Are you homophobic, or something?

[BashfulAnthony]

Which dogma do we have that we can be dogmatic about, out of interest?

Shame he didn't succeed, I'd say.

Firmly outside of your view of 'proper' Christmas... where we started. Well there's a relief.

I can see how Christmas carols might, in some instances, be considered to have a religious origin or a religious spin - and equally how some people can like to sing and not give a toss what they're singing, hence Boyzone - but what's religious about sending Christmas cards?

O....

For an intelligent man, you make some pretty lame arguments sometimes!

[BashfulAnthony]

Must tell my wife, another atheist, as are the rest of my family, oh yes my wife's a gospel singer, loves almost everything about it, so do I.

Funnily enough most of the singers in her group are atheists too, like the rest of us they love the music.

ippy

What do I say to that?  Next, they'll be singing the Red Flag at the Tory Conference, and saying they just like the tune!   

[BashfulAnthony]

Hmm - not sure the musical director of my choir would be too happy with me (and the other atheists in the choir) humming rather than singing the words.

Nor the 300 or so members of the public who pay good money to come and see us perform in our Christmas concert.

Don't forget we are 'performing' not 'worshiping' BA.

Then try and sing something that doesn't include devotional themes:  bizarre!

[BashfulAnthony]

I think you'll find that you're allowed to sing, but you have to keep your fingers crossed.

Because that stops the magic getting in. Or out.

Or something.

Well articulated...   

[Shaker]

Gonners: The 1989 recording of Thomas Tallis's Salvator Mundi II (the II is very important as Tallis wrote two different versions) by the Winchester Cathedral choir directed by David Hill is far and away one of the loveliest pieces I know - an impossibly beautiful recording. I've heard a thousand others and this remains the best, hands down. It's not on YouTube as far as I know and is difficult to find online but I did turn up this link - scroll down to number nine on the list to find Salvator Mundi II:

http://sneg.audio/show/winchester-cathedral-choir-david-hill

[BashfulAnthony]

Which dogma do we have that we can be dogmatic about, out of interest?

Shame he didn't succeed, I'd say.

Firmly outside of your view of 'proper' Christmas... where we started. Well there's a relief.

I can see how Christmas carols might, in some instances, be considered to have a religious origin or a religious spin - and equally how some people can like to sing and not give a toss what they're singing, hence Boyzone - but what's religious about sending Christmas cards?

O.

If the cards have a message about Jesus, they are devotional, and should be sent on that basis.  If not, they are merely nice and pretty cards, which can mean anything you wish.

[BashfulAnthony]

Hmm - not sure the musical director of my choir would be too happy with me (and the other atheists in the choir) humming rather than singing the words.

Nor the 300 or so members of the public who pay good money to come and see us perform in our Christmas concert.

Don't forget we are 'performing' not 'worshiping' BA.

Then you should ensure that your performing is appropriate, and not trivialising what is special to so many, by singing without any conviction in what you are singing.  I think a performance should window not only your talents, but your sincerity.

[BashfulAnthony]

Flos Campi by Ralph Vaughan Williams has a prominent part for a large but wordless chorus - literally humming and aaahing throughout.

I'm sure that's ideologically acceptable to BA

Now, for an atheist, he had the right idea!   

[jeremyp]

Yes, we're discussing the CofE, not prayer, let alone God. So the purpose of the advert was..?

To advertise what they believe to be the word of God.

Given that they see that as their mission, I honestly can't see what the problem is. Provided they keep within the law, they have every right to advertise when and where they like. Also, DCM has every right not to accept their business.

[BashfulAnthony]

I love a good violent action movie. I could watch Die Hard on hard rotation. I laughed out loud the first time I saw the scene in Pulp Fiction where Vincent Vega accidentally discharges his firearm.

In spite of this, I have never felt the desire to commit a violent act of the nature portrayed in those films. When i was five, I loved Tom and Jerry, but even then, people like you were saying the violence was a problem and I used to think "it's a cartoon. Can't grown ups tell the difference between cartoons and real life?"

Fine; but you are an intelligent, discerning, and well-adjusted individual.  Many, many, are not, and will be adversely influenced by such viewing.  And even if only a few are, it is a slippery slope.

[jeremyp]

'Another festival' that actually has no purpose under the name of 'Christmas'.  At least when religions take over existing festivals, they rename them to fit their new contexts

How do you explain Eater?

[BashfulAnthony]

How do you explain Eater?

I explain Easter as being the time I celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus.  No more, no less.  With Christmas there is discussion to be had:  He certainly wasn't born on the 25th; not that it matters.  There is discussion to be had over the Nativity.  But with Easter, it is a whole different ball game.  Easter is the very crux of Christian belief, and to trivialise it by such things as claiming it is a Pagan festival, is a total red herring.  It is a very, very, special time for Christians, and I think, whatever your beliefs, or no beliefs, it is not asking much to respect that.

[Shaker]

If the cards have a message about Jesus, they are devotional, and should be sent on that basis. If not, they are merely nice and pretty cards, which can mean anything you wish.

Isn't that exactly what so many of us have been saying?

[BashfulAnthony]

Isn't that exactly what so many of us have been saying?

No, it isn't.  Not unless you concede that it is inappropriate to sing about Jesus and His birth when you don't believe it.  To sing about nothing in particular to the music of a carol is another thing.

[Shaker]

No, it isn't.

Sure it is. Many of us here have taken considerable pains to tell you that Christmas is a privatised and malleable affair; people make of it whatever they want to, seeing it how they want to see it and creating their own traditions. Many Australians spend Christmas morning on the beach in blazing sunshine, complete with Santa. Personally I can't imagine anything worse, but that's another way of doing Christmas that suits a lot of people.

Not unless you concede that it is inappropriate to sing about Jesus and His birth when you don't believe it.  To sing about nothing in particular to the music of a carol is another thing.

Nothing remotely inappropriate about it. They're still not magic and nobody owns these songs; the best ones are so ancient and of such obscure origin that more often than not they can only be credited to our old friends Mr. Trad. and Mr. Anon. I find it hard to believe that many people give much if any thought to the words in any case; the words are simply a vehicle for a cracking good melody which is a delight to sing for those who can do so, rather than vice versa.

[Shaker]

Now, for an atheist, he had the right idea!   

... but then of course there's the reams of "religious" music he wrote. "There's no reason why an atheist can't write a good Mass," he said, and he was of course quite right - his example (the Mass in G minor) being amazingly lovely:

https://youtu.be/lGCCRN0o9Lo

[Ricky Spanish]

Personally I dont understand why DCM have made the decision to ban the advert, (not christians as is stated in the OP,) from their cinemas on the grounds that  "some advertisements - unintentionally or otherwise - could cause offence to those of differing political persuasions, as well as to those of differing faiths and indeed of no faith".

Did anybody at DCM actually watch the advert?

There is nothing in it that should cause offence, in fact anyone who gets all offended by it must be the kind of permanently offended attention seeker who pisses pretty much everyone off with their unwarranted whinging on subjects they are plainly ignorant of.

Below is a link to the ad. Feel free to be offended by it, or not as is your want.

https://youtu.be/dx1ud-3fXC8

Its basically an advert promoting the "Just Prey" website. How is that offensive?

I get that some may object to children being forced to recite the lords prayer at state run schools etc. I know I do, but the actually advert doesn't force anyone to actually say the Lord's Prayer, so I have no objection to it at all.

[ProfessorDavey]

I explain Easter as being the time I celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus.  No more, no less.  With Christmas there is discussion to be had:  He certainly wasn't born on the 25th; not that it matters.  There is discussion to be had over the Nativity.  But with Easter, it is a whole different ball game.  Easter is the very crux of Christian belief, and to trivialise it by such things as claiming it is a Pagan festival, is a total red herring.  It is a very, very, special time for Christians, and I think, whatever your beliefs, or no beliefs, it is not asking much to respect that.

If it is so important to you as a Christian why is Easter named after a pagan goddess of the spring.

The name has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity. Why not call it something that relates to Christianity as is the case in most other languages. If Christmas has to be Christian because of the etymology of its name, then Easter has to be pagan for the same reason - claiming anything else is hypocrisy BA.

[Gordon]

But with Easter, it is a whole different ball game.  Easter is the very crux of Christian belief, and to trivialise it by such things as claiming it is a Pagan festival, is a total red herring.  It is a very, very, special time for Christians, and I think, whatever your beliefs, or no beliefs, it is not asking much to respect that.

Yes it is: 'Easter' is just the spring/vernal equinox festival onto which Christians have incorporated some of their religious dogma, where even its name (since I think you the laboured the 'Christ' in 'Christmas' line earlier) has pagan origins. Just like with 'Christmas' the spring holiday can be enjoyed without any direct reference to Christianity: for example, I don't recall rabbits looming large in the NT.

That you think it is 'special' is fine, so you can spend it how you wish, but that doesn't mean that non-Christians should treat this holiday with particular reverence just because you Christians do, and there are always other options: for example, in 2014 the archaic law that prohibited horse-racing on so-called 'Good Friday' was repealed so in 2016 I'll be off to Musselburgh on that day, which won't inconvenience or interfere in the slightest in however you Christians choose to spend your 'Good Friday' (or as I call it 'Friday').   

[bluehillside Retd.]

BA,

If the cards have a message about Jesus, they are devotional, and should be sent on that basis.  If not, they are merely nice and pretty cards, which can mean anything you wish.

URGENT: Can I ask for your wisdom and guidance on a matter of some urgency please? I was planning this year to send Christmas cards featuring Jesus riding a unicorn while slaying the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Given your wholly justified role as judge and arbiiter of the SS ("Sufficient Sincerity") test, can you advise please on whether this would be OK, or whether I'd fail the dreaded "hypocrite" test.

I await your instruction with some trepidation.

Ta everso.

[bluehillside Retd.]

BA,

No, it isn't.  Not unless you concede that it is inappropriate to sing about Jesus and His birth when you don't believe it.  To sing about nothing in particular to the music of a carol is another thing.

Oh no - this is getting worse! I'm just back from dropping the kids at school and we had a good old sing-song to the radio on the way in. Now you've got me worried though...

...I'm fine I think with "I kissed a girl and I liked it" - I can be reasonably sincere about that so don't feel too hypocritical (hang on, does that make make me an adulterer though? - Oo-er!) but I'm less sure about Justin Bieber's "Love yourself". What form should this self-love take if I'm not to be a hypocrite please?

But then it got worse - only Air's "Sexy Boy"! See, here's the thing - I don't actually find boys to be, well, sexy yet I quite like the song. What should I have done please? I'm thinking perhaps faking a coughing fit for 3 mins 22 seconds but my girls would have rumbled that, and just going quiet and looking out of the window would have raised their suspicions too.

This is a minefield man - I need you help here...URGENTLY!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlud,

Personally I dont understand why DCM have made the decision to ban the advert,..

What you actually don't understand is that they haven't "banned" anything. See Reply 248.