Christianity banned from cinemas

[Gordon]

Christmas and Easter certainly aren't yours.  Dates and claims to such dates are red herrings.  Leave Christmas and Easter to Christians, and just do your own thing, whatever that is.

You are taking this far too seriously, BA - these are now just secular seasonal holidays, and nobody is stopping you from overlaying them which whatever brand of religious myth suits your taste. 

[BashfulAnthony]

Indeed - to paraphrase. It doesn't matter a jot whether you say Christmas is a Christian festival: it is also a mid winter festival (celebrated by atheists as well as believers, because guess what mid winter is a fact, it requires no belief).

You have no more claim of monopoly on the 'meaning of Christmas' than pagans do on the 'meaning of Easter'.

Stop being so hypocritical - either accept that non Christians can celebrate Christmas as a non Christian festival or accept that you can't celebrate Easter as a Christian festival.

You can celebrate anything you like at this time of year:  but don't call it Christmas  (Christ's Mass), or join in specifically Christian traditions.  That is hypocritical, and, I might say, a denial of your own beliefs, for those who actually have any.

[ProfessorDavey]

You can celebrate anything you like at this time of year:  but don't call it Christmas  (Christ's Mass), or join in specifically Christian traditions.  That is hypocritical, and, I might say, a denial of your own beliefs, for those who actually have any.

You can celebrate the purported resurrection of Jesus in the spring: but don't call it Easter  named after Eostre, pagan goddess of the spring. That is hypocritical.

BA - just recognise this is an argument you aren't going to win. Accusing others of hypocrisy for celebrating Christmas as anything other than a Christian festival, while happily celebrating Easter as something other than a pagan spring festival isn't really going to win any arguments, is it now.

[BashfulAnthony]

You can celebrate the purported resurrection of Jesus in the spring: but don't call it Easter  named after Eostre, pagan goddess of the spring. That is hypocritical.

BA - just recognise this is an argument you aren't going to win. Accusing others of hypocrisy for celebrating Christmas as anything other than a Christian festival, while happily celebrating Easter as something other than a pagan spring festival isn't really going to win any arguments, is it now.

I don't celebrate a name, I celebrate an event.  I expect at some point this next month you will send or receive Christmas cards, sing carols, join in with specific Christian traditions, etc,  If you do, it is you who is a hypocrite.   I lose nothing:  it is you who loses:  loses any credibility!   

[bluehillside Retd.]

BA,

You can celebrate anything you like at this time of year:  but don't call it Christmas  (Christ's Mass), or join in specifically Christian traditions.  That is hypocritical, and, I might say, a denial of your own beliefs, for those who actually have any.

Such arrogance, such pomposity, such stupidity!

If someone wants to sing Christmas carols that have religious content they can pick and choose which bits to take seriously or not as they please with no "hypocrisy" involved at all. All they're saying is, "this bit's a bit daft lyrics-wise, but hey it's a nice song so I'll happily sing along anyway" - there's not some kind of entrance exam of "sincerity" you have to pass first!

If you genuinely think otherwise presumably you'd stop your kids going to school the day they "do" Eid - after all, you wouldn't want them to be hypocrites now would you... 

Good grief!   

[ProfessorDavey]

I can't recollect ever seeing cards or music or any references to Pagan celebrations at this time of the year.

Really

So you never receive any cards with mid winter symbolism? You know the ones with snow-flakes, or Robins on snowy gates, perhaps some ice skaters wrapped up against the cold, winter scenes. Or images of Holly or mistletoes, or decorated (ever green) trees to bring cheer to the darkest part of the year, maybe a picture of a roaring, warming fire or any number of animals in snowy wintery landscape.

[BashfulAnthony]

The real truth of this is that you non-believers simply want to indulge in Christmas festivities  and you make these arguments to try and justify your participation.  I bet you have a Christmas dinner.  Why not make up a Pagan dinner, or whatever dinner you want, instead of hi-jacking a specifically Christian tradition?

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't celebrate a name, I celebrate an event.

Then you must apply the same standard to others. So I and others celebrate an event - mid winter - given that you seem comfortable that the name is irrelevant why are you so het up if I and others chose to call that celebration of mid winter Christmas, just as you call your Christian festival Easter.

[bluehillside Retd.]

BA,

I lose nothing...

Now there I agree with you - you can't "lose "something you lost long, long ago.

[ProfessorDavey]

The real truth of this is that you non-believers simply want to indulge in Christmas festivities  and you make these arguments to try and justify your participation.  I bet you have a Christmas dinner.  Why not make up a Pagan dinner, or whatever dinner you want, instead of hi-jacking a specifically Christian tradition?

Given that much of the earliest pagan mid winter festivities will have been associated with marking a time of year where food was scarce with a welcome feast in celebration of the turning of the year, the point at which days start to get longer again and the promise of plenty again in the spring and summer can be recognised, then I think feasting is much more aligned with the mid winter celebration than with the nativity.

In what way is a christmas pudding (remember made with dried fruit from the previous autumn) have anything to do with the nativity. And guess what you might even put a spring of holly on top, a classic pagan symbol.

[BashfulAnthony]

Then you must apply the same standard to others. So I and others celebrate an event - mid winter - given that you seem comfortable that the name is irrelevant why are you so het up if I and others chose to call that celebration of mid winter Christmas, just as you call your Christian festival Easter.

I repeat:  I do not celebrate a name, I celebrate the birth and death of Jesus.  You people can celebrate what you like, just leave Christmas festivities and the celebration of Easter to Christianity.  Trouble is, you people cannot leave Christianity alone.  Those who are Pagans spend most of their time on this forum discussing and de-bunking other beliefs, in paricular, Christianity.   Your obsession is worrying.

[Gordon]

The real truth of this is that you non-believers simply want to indulge in Christmas festivities  and you make these arguments to try and justify your participation.  I bet you have a Christmas dinner.  Why not make up a Pagan dinner, or whatever dinner you want, instead of hi-jacking a specifically Christian tradition?

As far as I'm aware there is no fixed formula for 'Christmas Dinner; and the menu varies in line with local cuisines, and Christmas cards are a Victorian invention designed to encourage use the the then new postal system - you seem to be hi-jacking non-Christian elements yourself.

Anyway, I thought 'goodwill to our fellow man' etc was all part of the seasonal tradition - though you seem to be devoid of this yourself, BA (or should I call you Ebenezer?)

[ProfessorDavey]

I repeat:  I do not celebrate a name, I celebrate the birth and death of Jesus.  You people can celebrate what you like, just leave Christmas festivities and the celebration of Easter to Christianity.  Trouble is, you people cannot leave Christianity alone.  Those who are Pagans spend most of their time on this forum discussing and de-bunking other beliefs, in paricular, Christianity.   Your obsession is worrying.

Getting a bit riled aren't you. Trouble is you cannot actually see the double standards in what you say.

Were you to call your celebration of the purported resurrection of Jesus something other than Easter (as most other countries do, with named derivatives of Paschal) then you might not be accused of double standards. But you don't, so double standards it is.

If I genuinely believed that in your celebration of Christmas that you restricted it totally to Christian elements, with no customs and symbolism with pagan mid winter routes (e.g. holly, mistletoe, decorations, yule log on the fire, cards with winter scenes etc etc etc, lights to brighten the darkest time of the year - none of which have anything to do with the nativity and everything to do with older mid winter festivities) then you might not be accused of double standards. But I doubt very much that you do.

[floo]

Blimey posts have strayed a long way from the actual point of the thread. If a certain poster feels so strongly about his version of Christmas then maybe he would like to start a new thread on that subject. 

[BashfulAnthony]

As far as I'm aware there is no fixed formula for 'Christmas Dinner; and the menu varies in line with local cuisines, and Christmas cards are a Victorian invention designed to encourage use the the then new postal system - you seem to be hi-jacking non-Christian elements yourself.

Anyway, I thought 'goodwill to our fellow man' etc was all part of the seasonal tradition - though you seem to be devoid of this yourself, BA (or should I call you Ebenezer?)

I'm not devoid of good will: just ant-hypocrisy.

Ebenezer?  Sounds like you don't know much about Dickens, either.   

[Outrider]

Christmas and Easter certainly aren't yours.  Dates and claims to such dates are red herrings.  Leave Christmas and Easter to Christians, and just do your own thing, whatever that is.

Sounds good - my thing is Christmas.

I can't recollect ever seeing cards or music or any references to Pagan celebrations at this time of the year.

Really? No Christmas trees? No snow-covered scenery? No crescent moons and fields of stars? No robins? No holly wreathes? You think pagans didn't sing before the Christians attempted to purge them from Europe? I'm not into music, particularly, but I recall hearing of "This Endris Night" as having pagan origins.

I'm sure there are some;  so stick to those, and leave Christian traditions to Christians.

Which Christian traditions would those be? Just so I know which cultural traditions I'm banned from taking part in whilst Christians cry that they aren't being allowed to advertise in cinemas.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm not into music, particularly, but I recall hearing of "This Endris Night" as having pagan origins.

It is interesting how many carols combine elements of the nativity and elements that have nothing to do with the nativity and everything to do with a pagan mid winter festival.

Good examples being:
In the bleak mid winter
The holly and the ivy
Deck the halls (well actually I don't think this has anything Christian about it at all)
Good King Wenceslas (barely anything Christian)
Past three O'Clock
Sans Day Carol

[~TW~]

It is interesting how many carols combine elements of the nativity and elements that have nothing to do with the nativity and everything to do with a pagan mid winter festival.

Good examples being:
In the bleak mid winter
The holly and the ivy
Deck the halls (well actually I don't think this has anything Christian about it at all)
Good King Wenceslas (barely anything Christian)
Past three O'Clock
Sans Day Carol

 The point being
                                           ~TW~

[ProfessorDavey]

The point being
                                           ~TW~

That what we see as our 'traditional' Christmas is multifaceted and incorporates element both from the Christian nativity and the pagan mid winter festivals.

I suspect if we eliminated either of those our Christmas would seem very odd to most of us.

[~TW~]

That what we see as our 'traditional' Christmas is multifaceted and incorporates element both from the Christian nativity and the pagan mid winter festivals.

I suspect if we eliminated either of those our Christmas would seem very odd to most of us.

 We have two types that celebrate Christmas those that belong to God and those that do not belong to God,so a mixture of music and song is fine by me.

             ~TW~

[Shaker]

I'm not devoid of good will: just ant-hypocrisy.

Precisely.

[ProfessorDavey]

We have two types that celebrate Christmas those that belong to God and those that do not belong to God,so a mixture of music and song is fine by me.

             ~TW~

Glad that's your view - live and let live.

Maybe you can try to persuade our chum BA.

[Shaker]

I repeat:  I do not celebrate a name

Indeed: you seem to worship one - just a name rather than any celebration or festivities, given the amount of squealing you do over it.

[Shaker]

Glad that's your view - live and let live.

Maybe you can try to persuade our chum BA.

Good grief - I've seen it all when ~TW is the voice of reason.

[ProfessorDavey]

I repeat:  I do not celebrate a name, I celebrate the birth and death of Jesus.  You people can celebrate what you like, just leave Christmas festivities and the celebration of Easter to Christianity.  Trouble is, you people cannot leave Christianity alone.  Those who are Pagans spend most of their time on this forum discussing and de-bunking other beliefs, in paricular, Christianity.   Your obsession is worrying.

Indeed: you seem to worship one - just a name rather than any celebration or festivities, given the amount of squealing you do over it.

Yet he accuses others of hypocrisy when they do exactly the same.

Which sounds to me like ... err ... hypocrisy.