Christianity banned from cinemas

[BashfulAnthony]

You win arguments by actually having a case in the first place and having the better reasoning. That's you out on both counts. You don't win by saying that you're the winner.

Still, you've made yourself look like a prize tool and incidentally revealed your hypocrisy about swearing elsewhere, so it's been worthwhile for that alone.

Calm down you lot.  Try and be good losers;  and if you're good, you can have some Christmas cake, as long as you don't bother with the rest of Christmas.      Don't allow yourself to be deluded!   

Apart from all that, this is way off-topic; and usually I get criticised if I do that.  But in this case, as dear Dave would say, "we're all in this together."

[Shaker]

Deluded is absolutely the correct word, Rhi 

[BashfulAnthony]

Deluded is absolutely the correct word, Rhi 

Glad you are honest enough to admit it!     

[BashfulAnthony]

One other thing:  good night, all.

[Nearly Sane]

One other thing:  good night, all.

Night, night, BA.

[Nearly Sane]

On the contrary, Rhiannon:  I won the argument quite clearly; not that there is much of an argument, since my position is palpably the correct one; and the very fact the atheists cannot leave it be, shows that they feel guilty about their own duplicity, and are vainly trying to justify it: and failing.  And with that resounding success, I will leave it.  Do tell Shaky he can calm down now and think of his blood pressure!   

BA = Violet Elizabeth Bott

[Maeght]

Calm down you lot.  Try and be good losers;  and if you're good, you can have some Christmas cake, as long as you don't bother with the rest of Christmas.      Don't allow yourself to be deluded!   

I won the argument quite clearly; not that there is much of an argument, since my position is palpably the correct one; and the very fact the atheists cannot leave it be, shows that they feel guilty about their own duplicity, and are vainly trying to justify it: and failing.  And with that resounding success, I will leave it.  Do tell Shaky he can calm down now and think of his blood pressure!   

One other thing:  good night, all.

Classic WUM language and use of smilies. Just take no notice.

[Sassy]

It is the celebration of the Nativity: nothing to do with mid-winter.

Bash is correct.

Solstice is the 21st month. The winter Solstice the 21st December.
What I find interesting is that the experts as you call them Shakes, all say the pagans stole the dates and even shifted to make themselves look as if they always used that time.

Truth is everyone wants to connect their beliefs to the Christ.
Or even make out their beliefs older. But as God created everything then God gets to be the oldest belief.

I wonder if people get really jealous of how Christ has stuck around for all these centuries and is wider known and understood more than any other belief.

I guess their is room for all beliefs. But trying to steal a celebration is a little childish. Christmas Day is for Christ. You can't change it can you.

 

[Shaker]

What I find interesting is that the experts as you call them Shakes, all say the pagans stole the dates and even shifted to make themselves look as if they always used that time.

Which "experts" are you referring to and what are, or rather where are your sources for this assertion?

Truth is everyone wants to connect their beliefs to the Christ.

Pretty sure they don't. Atheists don't. Pagans don't. My culturally (barely) Hindu neighbours don't. Large-minded and friendly adherents of non-Christian religions who simply enjoy the trappings and appurtenances of a British Christmas don't.

or even make out their beliefs older. But as God created everything then God gets to be the oldest belief.

There isn't even an attempt to make sense out of that mangled mess.

I wonder if people get really jealous of how Christ has stuck around for all these centuries and is wider known and understood more than any other belief.

No. There are two different fallacies involved there, by the way. See if you can spot them.

Christmas Day is for Christ.

Not in our house, it isn't.

You can't change it can you.

Too late was the cry!

[Shaker]

BA = Violet Elizabeth Bott

Strikes me as more of a Black Knight type

https://youtu.be/dhRUe-gz690

[Sassy]

Shaker
ｫ Reply #697 on: November 26, 2015, 11:58:40 PM ｻ

Quote from: Sassy on November 26, 2015, 11:38:59 PM
What I find interesting is that the experts as you call them Shakes, all say the pagans stole the dates and even shifted to make themselves look as if they always used that time.

Which "experts" are you referring to and what are, or rather where are your sources for this assertion?

If you really bothered to check anything up you would not be asking....

Truth is everyone wants to connect their beliefs to the Christ.

Pretty sure they don't. Atheists don't. Pagans don't. My culturally (barely) Hindu neighbours don't. Large-minded and friendly adherents of non-Christian religions who simply enjoy the trappings and appurtenances of a British Christmas don't.

Not in a position to speak for everyone. But if you understood how the different religions try to connect themselves to Christ then you would not be answering would you?

I've an Indian friend who, when he was seven ,moved with his family from India to England, where he was enrolled at a new school. On his first day he was asked to speak to the class about a saint from his Hindu tradition.

Enthusiastically he began to tell the story of the saint called Ishu, who was born in a cowshed, was visited by three holy men, performed many amazing miracles, walked on water and spoke a wonderful sermon on a mountain.

Of course, he was telling the story of Christ. But he was bewildered to hear that the teacher laid claim to Ishu for herself and her friends and she let him know that this was her Lord and her story, not his. He was very upset about this, because Ishu's tale was his favourite story.

or even make out their beliefs older. But as God created everything then God gets to be the oldest belief.

There isn't even an attempt to make sense out of that mangled mess.

Lacking in ability and knowledge....

I wonder if people get really jealous of how Christ has stuck around for all these centuries and is wider known and understood more than any other belief.

No. There are two different fallacies involved there, by the way. See if you can spot them.

Is that it? Is that the best you can do... lacking in imagination too.

Christmas Day is for Christ.

Not in our house, it isn't.

Your house doesn't count but I bet you eat CRIMBO dinner and expect and give presents...

You can't change it can you.

Too late was the cry!

I suppose you would be crying after that reply...

[SusanDoris]

On the contrary, Rhiannon:  I won the argument quite clearly; not that there is much of an argument, since my position is palpably the correct one; and the very fact the atheists cannot leave it be, shows that they feel guilty about their own duplicity, and are vainly trying to justify it: and failing.  And with that resounding success, I will leave it.  Do tell Shaky he can calm down now and think of his blood pressure!   

What mammoth self-delusion!!

[Shaker]

If you really bothered to check anything up you would not be asking....

Evasion expected. Evasion noted.

But if you understood how the different religions try to connect themselves to Christ then you would not be answering would you?

They don't.

Is that it? Is that the best you can do... lacking in imagination too.

What's that got to do with the fact that I've pointed out the fallacies you deploy?

Your house doesn't count

Why not?

but I bet you eat CRIMBO dinner and expect and give presents...

I eat dinner every day. I don't get any presents from Jesus so I don't buy for him either.

[ProfessorDavey]

Bash is correct.

Solstice is the 21st month. The winter Solstice the 21st December.
What I find interesting is that the experts as you call them Shakes, all say the pagans stole the dates and even shifted to make themselves look as if they always used that time.

Oh do keep up please Sassy.

This point has already been discussed. Under the Julian calendar around the time of Jesus' birth and thereafter the solstice was on the 25th Dec and also there are records of festivals to celebrate the winter solstice (Brumalia, Saturnalia, Sol Invictus) at the solstice, or ending on the solstice, i.e. 25th Dec. Evidence for the solstice being on the 25th comes from, amongst others Pliny, writing in the 1stC and there are numerous references from many contemporary writers about the solstice festivals. So for example Servius writes that Bruma is celebrated 8 days (counting inclusively so Jan 1st is day 1) before the Kalends of January (1st Jan) - you work it our but I make that December 25th.

So there is no real doubt that in those days the solstice and its celebrations were on the 25th Dec and that remains the traditional day for their celebration. That the solstice is now on the 21/22 is down to the inaccuracies in the Julian calendar and the approach to dealing with them with the creation of the Gregorian calendar centuries later.

[ProfessorDavey]

On the contrary, Rhiannon:  I won the argument quite clearly; not that there is much of an argument, since my position is palpably the correct one; and the very fact the atheists cannot leave it be, shows that they feel guilty about their own duplicity, and are vainly trying to justify it: and failing.  And with that resounding success, I will leave it.  Do tell Shaky he can calm down now and think of his blood pressure!   

We've already established BA as a hypocrite for considering it unacceptable for non Christians to celebrate at Christmas but to think it perfectly OK for non pagans to celebrate Easter.

Now we get this comment. Now I'm not sure whether this is complete delusion on his part, total arrogance or merely demonstrating deep irony. I hope for his case it is the latter.

[BashfulAnthony]

What mammoth self-delusion!!

I'll bet you haven't even read the through the discussion:  just the usual denunciation.  You are a very bigoted person!

[BashfulAnthony]

We've already established BA as a hypocrite for considering it unacceptable for non Christians to celebrate at Christmas but to think it perfectly OK for non pagans to celebrate Easter.

Now we get this comment. Now I'm not sure whether this is complete delusion on his part, total arrogance or merely demonstrating deep irony. I hope for his case it is the latter.

To try and enlighten your confusion:  read carefully, for once:  I, all Christians, do not celebrate something called Easter;  we celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus Christ,  and it matters not what date it falls on  (remembering that Easter is a moveable feast anyway.)  I've said this already;  so clearly you are not following;  but perhaps now you get it  -  an unlikely scenario!

[ProfessorDavey]

I, all Christians, do not celebrate something called Easter;  we celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus Christ

Nope you celebrate the purported resurrection of Jesus in a festival that you call Easter.

A bit like others who celebrate the mid winter and solstice in a festival that we call Christmas.

Both are either equally right, or equally wrong.

In my view I have no problem with either, but in your mind one is OK (non pagans celebrating a festival that they call Easter) but the other wrong (non Christians celebrating a festival that they call Christmas). That is, of course, rank hypocrisy.

[BashfulAnthony]

Nope you celebrate the purported resurrection of Jesus in a festival that you call Easter.

A bit like others who celebrate the mid winter and solstice in a festival that we call Christmas.

Both are either equally right, or equally wrong.

In my view I have no problem with either, but in your mind one is OK (non pagans celebrating a festival that they call Easter) but the other wrong (non Christians celebrating a festival that they call Christmas). That is, of course, rank hypocrisy.

You really are quite good at talking your way round the truth.  What I said was clear enough. So forget your silly spin and accept the reality of what I say.  That will be difficult for you, but do try old son.

[Shaker]

We've already established BA as a hypocrite for considering it unacceptable for non Christians to celebrate at Christmas

Not wholly true - some non-Christians marking Christmas are not hypocrites and pass the Bashers test if they're brown, like my neighbours. He won't have a go at those (though he won't explain why).

[ProfessorDavey]

Not wholly true - some non-Christians marking Christmas are not hypocrites and pass the Bashers test if they're brown, like my neighbours. He won't have a go at those (though he won't explain why).

Double hypocrisy then.

[ProfessorDavey]

You really are quite good at talking your way round the truth.  What I said was clear enough. So forget your silly spin and accept the reality of what I say.  That will be difficult for you, but do try old son.

Ooh do I detect a begrudgingly given complement there BA.

Sounds as if, in your heart of hearts you know full well that your argument is totally inconsistent and that I am right. Shame you can't simply admit it - we'd think rather more of you if you would.

[BashfulAnthony]

Double hypocrisy then.

You are a lad!   I never put you down as one of the "if I say it three times it's true," brigade.   In fact, you may well have been a founder member.   

[ProfessorDavey]

You are a lad!   I never put you down as one of the "if I say it three times it's true," brigade.   In fact, you may well have been a founder member.   

how many times it is said is irrelevant.

If your argument is strong then saying it once (or as many times as you like) doesn't change that fact.

If your argument is weak, like yours, you can say it until you are blue in that face and it won't become any stronger.

[BashfulAnthony]

how many times it is said is irrelevant.

If your argument is strong then saying it once (or as many times as you like) doesn't change that fact.

If your argument is weak, like yours, you can say it until you are blue in that face and it won't become any stronger.

Get over yourself.  You know I'm right. I expect your pride won't let you admit it.  I understand;  just a quiet acknowledgement will suffice.