Building a Universe God’s Way

[ippy]

Bonkers is the word NM 
  ~TW~

I was going to write, you should know ~Tw__ but of course, silly me, You wouldn't.

ippy 

[NicholasMarks]

ippy, BeRational, Outrider, Floo, BashfulAnthony:

I know that it must be frustrating when you have dismissed the Holy Bible with such severe and outspoken diatribe but the fact remains...

Oh dear...it's dinner time,

 

[BeRational]

ippy, BeRational, Outrider, Floo, BashfulAnthony:

I know that it must be frustrating when you have dismissed the Holy Bible with such severe and outspoken diatribe but the fact remains...

Oh dear...it's dinner time,

 

Your posts contain no facts, just pure madness.

[NicholasMarks]

Your posts contain no facts, just pure madness.

Spoken like a true denier of the faith...but I am afraid you are wrong. You are wrong because you say that the Gospels aren't a true and accurate description of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ when millions, over the generations since, have testified that it has made a wonderful difference to their lives. Now whatever assertion you make for this fact, it has happened.

Also you deny the fact that a higher, more advanced people could exist who know everything there is to know about science...I suggest you put in UFO into your YouTube search engine.

You deny my take on the dynamic energy that is recorded in the Holy Bible, in Jesus Christ's accurate teaching, and in the scrutiny of modern sciences take on the universe.

I rather fancy BeRational that you prefer to deny this truth before it is actually presented to you...and that is a genetic weakness...and we are all suffering from genetic weaknesses of one sort or another including the one closest to Outrider's heart.

Everlasting life means a science that can repair all genetic weakness but it requires the ability to listen.

[floo]

Spoken like a true denier of the faith...but I am afraid you are wrong. You are wrong because you say that the Gospels aren't a true and accurate description of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ when millions, over the generations since, have testified that it has made a wonderful difference to their lives. Now whatever assertion you make for this fact, it has happened.

Also you deny the fact that a higher, more advanced people could exist who know everything there is to know about science...I suggest you put in UFO into your YouTube search engine.

You deny my take on the dynamic energy that is recorded in the Holy Bible, in Jesus Christ's accurate teaching, and in the scrutiny of modern sciences take on the universe.

I rather fancy BeRational that you prefer to deny this truth before it is actually presented to you...and that is a genetic weakness...and we are all suffering from genetic weaknesses of one sort or another including the one closest to Outrider's heart.

Everlasting life means a science that can repair all genetic weakness but it requires the ability to listen.

NM is there a single poster on this forum, Christian or otherwise, who sees it your way. If not maybe you should be asking yourself why?

[NicholasMarks]

Floo:

Well,Floo, perhaps that tallies with God's declaration that his knowledge is a reasoning that  passeth all understanding...but that just means you/we will have to try a little harder because you now have a modern science to help you...bearing in mind that the great tribulations, with nation rising against nation and a final Judgment is bearing heavily upon us all.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not the only one of necessity, the only reasonable one I've heard. If you've got a reasonable one, put it forward - you'll either need to do what NM here is doing and try to use science, or you'll have to come up with another methodology to reliably validate non-physical claims.

Good luck

O.

Outrider All you are down to is arguing philosophical materialism and arguing by saying your argument is right because another argument cannot be proved is frankly fallacious.

What then has philosophical materialism got going for it?

[NicholasMarks]

Outrider, Floo:

Bringing the theme back on track...it should  be easy to see that our star, along with all the stars in the Milky Way are hurtling through space as one galaxy at the speed of the expanding universe. Any hole that reaches  between this dimension and the static dimension that lies beneath it will in fact create atoms and the easiest atom to produce, en-masse, is the hydrogen atom, so we can see that the swirling, crashing forces within a star are doing exactly that, making holes between the dimensions and the slightest hint of such a hole creates atoms and by the laws of fast-breeding atoms, a star quickly transforms into a massive hydrogen furnace...in a similar fashion to our high-speed train.

[ippy]

ippy, BeRational, Outrider, Floo, BashfulAnthony:

I know that it must be frustrating when you have dismissed the Holy Bible with such severe and outspoken diatribe but the fact remains...

Oh dear...it's dinner time,

I know that it must be frustrating when know you've shown your hand that you are fully aware of the position you're in if you answer my question about the assertions you keep making.

You have demonstrated you're not as stupid as you make yourself out to be:

Because you know full well if you answer me and try to explain how one unprovable assertion can be used to back up another unprovable assertion, you've realised that you'll have snookered yourself and made yourself become even more of a laughing stock than you already are NM and thats the reason you wont answer me.

I suppose if you do answer this post we'll be getting yet another load of assertions? see if you can manage to answer without them or anything else without them.

ippy

[Outrider]

I know that it must be frustrating when you have dismissed the Holy Bible with such severe and outspoken diatribe but the fact remains...

What diatribe? I've said nothing about the 'truth' of the Bible, only pointed out that your claims that it's a work of science so far haven't been borne out by the evidence you've supplied.

O.

[Outrider]

Spoken like a true denier of the faith...but I am afraid you are wrong. You are wrong because you say that the Gospels aren't a true and accurate description of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ when millions, over the generations since, have testified that it has made a wonderful difference to their lives. Now whatever assertion you make for this fact, it has happened.

Millions have attested that Muhammed was the last prophet of God, and that he corrected the belief that Jesus was God incarnate - does that make that true? Millions have attested that Joseph Smith transcribed God's golden tablets with the aid of an angel - does that make that true? Or can, in fact, millions of people just be wrong?

Also you deny the fact that a higher, more advanced people could exist who know everything there is to know about science...I suggest you put in UFO into your YouTube search engine.

No, not deny that they could exist, just deny that there's any reason to think they had anything to do with the stories in the Bible or your claims of revelations of scientific wonders to early Arabs.

You deny my take on the dynamic energy that is recorded in the Holy Bible, in Jesus Christ's accurate teaching, and in the scrutiny of modern sciences take on the universe.

Deny that you've depicted it as science, yes. I can't refute the actual claims because, as yet, you've not tried to justify them, you've just made assertions which can be disregarded until you supply some rationale.

I rather fancy BeRational that you prefer to deny this truth before it is actually presented to you...and that is a genetic weakness...and we are all suffering from genetic weaknesses of one sort or another including the one closest to Outrider's heart.

Fragile X syndrome?

Everlasting life means a science that can repair all genetic weakness but it requires the ability to listen.

Everlasting life would appear to mean a fundamental breakdown in our understanding of thermodynamics, but I'm sure you've got an unevidenced assertion coming on that in short order, too.

O.

[Outrider]

Outrider All you are down to is arguing philosophical materialism and arguing by saying your argument is right because another argument cannot be proved is frankly fallacious.

Would that be your attempt to justify making claims without having a methodology to back them up?

What then has philosophical materialism got going for it?

Well, it's apparently so reliable and good that Nicholas here is trying to hijack it to lend credence to his claims. He doesn't have the out and out chutzpah you do to just spout an idea devoid of justification and think that it automatically has merit because it's not philosophical materialism and Professor Dawkins would probably not like it and denounce it in his most militantly atheist slightly aggravated tone.

O.

[Outrider]

Bringing the theme back on track...it should  be easy to see that our star, along with all the stars in the Milky Way are hurtling through space as one galaxy at the speed of the expanding universe.

Part of the implications of an expanding universe is the fact that there are no inertial reference points, and so any individual object can be considered to be stationary whilst everything else moves at relative velocities. Certainly they are not all moving 'at the speed of the expanding universe' although expansion is a component of their relative motions.

Any hole that reaches  between this dimension and the static dimension that lies beneath it will in fact create atoms and the easiest atom to produce, en-masse, is the hydrogen atom, so we can see that the swirling, crashing forces within a star are doing exactly that, making holes between the dimensions and the slightest hint of such a hole creates atoms and by the laws of fast-breeding atoms, a star quickly transforms into a massive hydrogen furnace...in a similar fashion to our high-speed train.

All you need do now is a) justify your claim of this other 'dimension', b) explain how a 'hole' might be breached between the two c) explain why that would result in new atoms and d) explain why a stream of energetic (from your previous description) hydrogen atoms (what happened to the neutrons, by the way?) would collapse into a star and not spread out in the vaccuum of space.

O.

[NicholasMarks]

Outrider:

All you need do now is a) justify your claim of this other 'dimension', b) explain how a 'hole' might be breached between the two c) explain why that would result in new atoms and d) explain why a stream of energetic (from your previous description) hydrogen atoms (what happened to the neutrons, by the way?) would collapse into a star and not spread out in the vaccuum of space.

Happy to oblige on this point Outrider though I know it will fall on deaf ears cus your not even trying to understand...that's ok...it isn't my resurrection and everlasting life that is at stake by your dogged refusal to believe the strength of teaching that is the accurate word of Jesus Christ.

As I have said a number of times now, the two separate dimensions are inferred by the fact that before the big-bang (as I describe it) there was a static universe filled with a dynamic property...dark matter (dynamic energy)...This is the first dimension.

After the big-bang there was a load of galaxies created (in the way I describe) all travelling at the speed of the expanding universe. (you can't have each galaxy doing it in isolation)...This second state represents the second dimension that is hurtling through the first dimension which is still static. Any disruption between these two dimensions gives us all the properties described by the 'grand unification of all the universal forces'...and many more...some of which currently baffle modern science but they no longer baffle you or me do they??

[Bubbles]

ippy, Floo, Outrider:

Do you mind very much if we get on to building a few atoms now because I am working to a tight schedule...I have to convert all the atheists (or as many  as possible) into the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ before the planet slips its orbit sending us all hurtling out into space....and we are nowhere near the birth of and the path of living-cells and life.

We have all the energy we need captured inside every solar ball of energy that has been born by the imploding force of the black-hole (eye of the hurricane), each of which is packed tightly by the gravitational influence of each individual star's black-hole that it sits in. All this matter and energy is very dense and is spinning and crashing into each other as the star rises up the column of the galaxies storm forces...which...remember, is also accelerating up to the speed of the expanding universe. By the time the star is centrifugally hurled out into the galaxies area of influence it will already have transformed much of its energy into fully fledged hydrogen atoms using a behaviour pattern quite capable of producing every atom known to science and perhaps a few more...and the repeatability of this process is shown to us many, many, many, trillions of times, over and over again.

This is where the two separate dimensions kick in. The first dimension being the static universe that existed before the big-bang and the second dimension being the high-speed universe that sits on top of the first dimension which came into being after the big-bang. It is the high-speed dimension that we live in, and upon which all our modern sciences are based, but we cannot fail to realise that this dimension clashes with another dimension from time to time, giving us some peculiar behaviour patterns, like, time slips...peculiar gravitation displays...peculiar space vehicle phenomenon...peculiar Higgs bosuns.

 

There's something about this post that reminds me of "Flash Gordon"

 and someone leaping about in Lycra, with the letters NM on his chest.......... Saving the Athiests of planet earth!



 

Perhaps I have too much imagination   


 

[Nearly Sane]

 

There's something about this post that reminds me of "Flash Gordon"

 and someone leaping about in Lycra, with the letters NM on his chest.......... Saving the Athiests of planet earth!



 

Perhaps I have too much imagination   


 

'Rose, I love you, but there's only fourteen hours to save the universe!'

[Bubbles]

'Rose, I love you, but there's only fourteen hours to save the universe!'

 

"Flash"

Flash a-ah
Savior of the Universe
Flash a-ah
He'll save every one of us

(Seemingly there is no reason for these extraordinary intergalactical upsets)
(Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha)
(What's happening Flash?)
(Only Doctor Hans Zarkhov, formerly at NASA, has provided any explanation)

Flash a-ah
He's a miracle

(This morning's unprecedented solar eclipse is no cause for alarm)

Flash a-ah
King of the impossible

He's for every one of us
Stand for every one of us
He save with a mighty hand
Every man, every woman
Every child, with a mighty
Flash

(General Kala, Flash Gordon approaching.)
(What do you mean Flash Gordon approaching? Open fire! All weapons! Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body)

Flash a-ah
(Gordon's alive!)

Flash a-ah
He'll save every one of us

Just a man
With a man's courage
You know he's
Nothing but a man
And he can never fail
No one but the pure at heart
May find the Golden Grail
...Oh..Oh........Oh..Oh....

(Flash, Flash, I love you, but we only have fourteen hours to save the Earth!)
Flash

Yep definately Lycra with the letters NM on his chest

King of the impossible ...........


 

[Sassy]

What size is it, Sparky?

You mean you don't know???

Oh, that's right science isn't exact it just guesses alot...

[floo]

Floo:

Well,Floo, perhaps that tallies with God's declaration that his knowledge is a reasoning that  passeth all understanding...but that just means you/we will have to try a little harder because you now have a modern science to help you...bearing in mind that the great tribulations, with nation rising against nation and a final Judgment is bearing heavily upon us all.

If the deity exists I bet it hasn't a clue what the heck you are on about either!

[Outrider]

Happy to oblige on this point Outrider though I know it will fall on deaf ears cus your not even trying to understand...that's ok...it isn't my resurrection and everlasting life that is at stake by your dogged refusal to believe the strength of teaching that is the accurate word of Jesus Christ.

I'm happy to try to understand the science you're claiming - unfortunately you aren't demonstrating or supporting that science, you're just claiming it which isn't how science works.

As I have said a number of times now, the two separate dimensions are inferred by the fact that before the big-bang (as I describe it) there was a static universe filled with a dynamic property...dark matter (dynamic energy)...This is the first dimension.

We have no data to know precisely what was before the big bang. It's only deductive reasoning that suggests ANYTHING was before the big bang (with qualifications on the use of 'before' in that sense, as well).

Similarly, we have only hypothesised dark matter/energy, we have no direct data to confirm it, and therefore know relatively little about that, too. Our current model, though, suggests that it came into existence with the rest of the universe, and so would not have been available 'before'.

After the big-bang there was a load of galaxies created (in the way I describe) all travelling at the speed of the expanding universe. (you can't have each galaxy doing it in isolation)...

Certainly at some point after the big bang there were galaxies forming, whether in the way you describe is somewhat questionable given the vague nature of your description. They aren't all travelling at the speed of the expanding universe - the nature of expansion means that the objects aren't moving in an absolute sense, they are simply becoming further apart as the space between them expands.

This second state represents the second dimension that is hurtling through the first dimension which is still static. Any disruption between these two dimensions gives us all the properties described by the 'grand unification of all the universal forces'...and many more...some of which currently baffle modern science but they no longer baffle you or me do they??

How do these 'dimensions' interact? How do they 'disrupt' each other? The Grand Unification theory is hypothetical at the moment, it may be that we never have sufficient understanding to unify all the macroscopically fundamental forces, and even if we did we'd then be left with trying to explain the interactions of the fundamental particles that manifest them, and then...

I'm more than happy to say that huge swathes of reality still baffle me, not least of which is how you still fail to understand science. Science works on precision, on exact detail, precise definitions and explicit mechanisms, not vague assertions and the uncritical acceptance of unvalidated and unevidenced claims.

O.

[NicholasMarks]

Outrider:

Your problem is Outrider that you don't read the Holy Bible with any sort of good intent else you would know that Jesus is talking about a wonderful energy that exists because Almighty God says it does, and as we can easily equate all the mass and all the laws controlling that mass with the word 'energy' it is pretty conclusive that we...science, and Jesus Christ, are all talking about the same energy. We just have to put it together so that it makes scientific sense and we can't do that unless we include accurate Biblical teaching.

When God says...'In the beginning was the word' he is saying that a very special person broke the hidden code of nature and brought it to the attention of his fellow man.

When he says...'and the word was with God'...he is saying this wonderful knowledge made him a cut above the rest

When he says...'and the word was God'...he is saying that the word earned him the full respect of those who received their salvation from his word...

and when he says...'and the word of God is the light of the world'...he is saying that this scientific knowledge, represented by his 'word'...did exactly what his son, who visited this planet 2000 years ago, setting up a line of communication with God's 'word', did exactly what Jesus said it would do...for those who could find faith in  his accuracy.

You could to if you dropped this attitude of denial and used your scientific insight to explore 'God's word'...and let's face it, it takes a pretty incredible person/being to resurrect a void planet and restore its life supporting properties...doesn't it??


   

[floo]

Your problem NM is that you have a very overactive imagination, and a lack of any real knowledge of science!

[Outrider]

Your problem is Outrider that you don't read the Holy Bible with any sort of good intent else you would know that Jesus is talking about a wonderful energy that exists because Almighty God says it does, and as we can easily equate all the mass and all the laws controlling that mass with the word 'energy' it is pretty conclusive that we...science, and Jesus Christ, are all talking about the same energy.

I know that you don't read about punctuation...

I have read the Bible with as 'good' an intent as I can. What I find of Jesus' words is that broadly they are a slightly simplistic and at times slightly primitive take on an otherwise highly creditable philosophy for how we could relate to other people to improve our experience of life.

What I don't find in there is any science, any sort of verifiable or sensible cosmology, and any description of fundamental physical forces or particles.

You are taking one selectively translated phrase - dynamic energy - from a questionable translation, and trying to lever it into modern physics without actually really understanding modern physics to justify unevidenced magical elements of the story like resurrection and miracles like a cut-price Depak Chopra.

We just have to put it together so that it makes scientific sense and we can't do that unless we include accurate Biblical teaching.

No, WE don't, because by and large WE aren't interested in trying to shoehorn the Bible into science because it's not a scientific work. You're interested in that, you have to do the work, and so far you haven't.

When God says...'In the beginning was the word' he is saying that a very special person broke the hidden code of nature and brought it to the attention of his fellow man.

That's not the conventional understanding of creation; I suspect the majority of believers are of the opinion that God, in the beginning, is making nature (as poetically described in Genesis), and is not beholden to its laws at all.

When he says...'and the word was with God'...he is saying this wonderful knowledge made him a cut above the rest

This is theology, not science.

When he says...'and the word was God'...he is saying that the word earned him the full respect of those who received their salvation from his word...

And this is mythology and not reality.

and when he says...'and the word of God is the light of the world'...he is saying that this scientific knowledge, represented by his 'word'...did exactly what his son, who visited this planet 2000 years ago, setting up a line of communication with God's 'word', did exactly what Jesus said it would do...for those who could find faith in  his accuracy.

And this is delusional poetry. And not even good poetry.

You could to if you dropped this attitude of denial and used your scientific insight to explore 'God's word'...and let's face it, it takes a pretty incredible person/being to resurrect a void planet and restore its life supporting properties...doesn't it??

It would, wouldn't it. All you need do is demonstrate that this happened, and that God did it, and that Jesus existed, and that Jesus was the magician you think he was, and then I'll believe.

I'm not 'denying' this, I don't need to deny this, I can just dismiss it because it's unsubstantiated claims. I can ignore this just like I can ignore claims that thunder comes from Thor, Shiva has multiple arms, the sun is carried across the sky in Apollo's chariot, Cinderella's accoutrements all reverted after the ball except a convenient fur slipper, and Anubis weighs the hearts of the dead against a feather in the underworld

They're 'not even wrong'.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

ippy, BeRational, Outrider, Floo, BashfulAnthony:

I know that it must be frustrating when you have dismissed the Holy Bible with such severe and outspoken diatribe but the fact remains...

Oh dear...it's dinner time,

 

I have, after much thought, study, and time, decided that the greater part of the OT is both a mis-representation of God; that the  Genesis stories are allegory, and now outdated, and the rest, the history, etc, belong mainly to the Judaic religion.  I have a strong faith in Jesus and His message; and I will not be questioned as to my faith in the Jesus, and the God of the NT, as taught by our Lord, by a  Fundamentalist such as yourself.  Thank you.

[Shaker]

Go on BA, have him