Funeral costs

[Hope]

Did you know that, at least in England, there is a fund that is ment to help poor families bury their loved ones?  Its part of the Social Fund.  Apparently, the sums it offers haven't increased (in line with inflation) for some 10 years.  However, a bog-standard funeral costs £3700.  Is that realistic?  Is it too much?

[Red Giant]

We're being ripped off.  But we ask for it because we wouldn't want to be seen dead buying the cheapest.

The answer is not to have funerals at all.  Who needs them?  Just create a memorial page on the internet.

[Shaker]

The bereaved need them, presumably.

Also the still living have ideas and want some say in the procedure that marks their death.

[Bubbles]

Also people don't expect to prepare their loved ones for burial although some do wash them and dress them in something they have asked to be buried in.

A lot of people feel awkward about washing down their deceased dad for example.

I think we pay, in a lot of cases,  because the funeral directors deal with the physical side of death etc.

I think we are more protected from death now. It's sanitised sort of.

I'm not sure there is anything stopping you from doing the funeral directors job yourself, some families have wakes.

Just spotted this.
http://www.goodfuneralguide.co.uk/find-a-funeral-director/do-it-all-yourself/

However there are some unpleasant features to preparing a body that is deceased, it may feature things someone might not want to have as the last memory of a loved one.

[Hope]

We're being ripped off.  But we ask for it because we wouldn't want to be seen dead buying the cheapest.

The answer is not to have funerals at all.  Who needs them?  Just create a memorial page on the internet.

And what would you do with the physical evidence, RG?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

A related article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12024458/York-solicitor-struck-off-after-charging-unconscionable-750-an-hour.html

If his clients are silly enough to pay him these huge fees that is their business, but to charge for attending a funeral is plain lousy.

[ad_orientem]

We're being ripped off.  But we ask for it because we wouldn't want to be seen dead buying the cheapest.

The answer is not to have funerals at all.  Who needs them?  Just create a memorial page on the internet.

That rather depends upon what and for whom you think the funeral rite is for. Either way, an expensive coffin and headstone are not required.

[jeremyp]

The bereaved need them, presumably.

Also the still living have ideas and want some say in the procedure that marks their death.

Agreed. Funerals are for the living, not for the dead.

[jeremyp]

Also people don't expect to prepare their loved ones for burial although some do wash them and dress them in something they have asked to be buried in.

A lot of people feel awkward about washing down their deceased dad for example.

I think we pay, in a lot of cases,  because the funeral directors deal with the physical side of death etc.

I think we are more protected from death now. It's sanitised sort of.

I'm not sure there is anything stopping you from doing the funeral directors job yourself, some families have wakes.

Just spotted this.
http://www.goodfuneralguide.co.uk/find-a-funeral-director/do-it-all-yourself/

However there are some unpleasant features to preparing a body that is deceased, it may feature things someone might not want to have as the last memory of a loved one.

If I was doing it myself, I don't think I 'd bother with the niceties. Just slap the body in a coffin and have done with it. Nobody is going to know that it isn't completely clean or that it is not in its Sunday best.

However, this is one of those things where I am grateful for a modern society where I can pay somebody else to sort everything out, although it has to be said I am very fortunate in that the estate of anybody for whom I am likely to have to arrange a funeral will certainly cover the cost.

[ad_orientem]

Agreed. Funerals are for the living, not for the dead.

Again, that rather depends upon who you ask. Ask an Orthodox or traditional Roman Catholic then they'll tell you the funeral rite is absolutely for the benefit of the deceased. What anyone else thinks of that is quite irrelevant.

[jeremyp]

Again, that rather depends upon who you ask.

No it doesn't. The dead are beyond caring.

Ask an Orthodox or traditional Roman Catholic then they'll tell you the funeral rite is absolutely for the benefit of the deceased.

But that is just a delusion. Even supposing your god actually exists, do you think he cares if new arrivals got a proper funeral or were simply thrown in a skip?

[ad_orientem]

No it doesn't. The dead are beyond caring.
But that is just a delusion. Even supposing your god actually exists, do you think he cares if new arrivals got a proper funeral or were simply thrown in a skip?

Only in your opinion. We believe that our prayers help the dead. What you think about that doesn't matter.

I've told people straight that when it's my turn to die, if they dispose of my body like the heathens (cremated and no Christian funeral rite) I swear I'll come back and haunt them to death.

[Shaker]

Agreed. Funerals are for the living, not for the dead.

Not entirely (see my second paragraph). If they were wholly for the living it would be deemed acceptable for the (for example) religious relatives of a thoroughoing atheist to arrange a religious funeral because they (the relatives) want it, and vice versa. It isn't.

[Shaker]

Only in your opinion. We believe that our prayers help the dead. What you think about that doesn't matter.

I've told people straight that when it's my turn to die, if they dispose of my body like the heathens (cremated and no Christian funeral rite) I swear I'll come back and haunt them to death.

But you won't.

[ad_orientem]

But you won't.

You don't know that.

[Shaker]

You don't know that.

It's as certain as anything can be said to be known within the limits of the bending-over-backwards-to-be-sceptical noises some people make about things that nobody of any sense believes.

[jeremyp]

Only in your opinion. We believe that our prayers help the dead. What you think about that doesn't matter.

What you believe is of no consequence. Why would God be swayed by your prayers. Surely he already knows if a person is fit to enter heaven?

I've told people straight that when it's my turn to die, if they dispose of my body like the heathens (cremated and no Christian funeral rite) I swear I'll come back and haunt them to death.

Supposing they choose to ignore your wishes, do you think it would make any difference to your chances of eternal life with God? Don't you think those will depend on your relationship with Christ rather than what kind of rite is used by the living to send you off?

[jeremyp]

Not entirely (see my second paragraph). If they were wholly for the living it would be deemed acceptable for the (for example) religious relatives of a thoroughoing atheist to arrange a religious funeral because they (the relatives) want it, and vice versa. It isn't.

Dead people are dead Shaker, how can any decision taken after their death have any effect on them? Of your scenario happens, the only people to be annoyed/upset or angry would be still living atheists who can't quite accept the truth that dead people are dead or who would regard the trappings of a religious funeral as a waste of money.

[Ricky Spanish]

Again, that rather depends upon who you ask.

True and if you ask me then funerals with all the pomp and ceremony are purely for the benefit of those attending.

Ask an Orthodox or traditional Roman Catholic then they'll tell you the funeral rite is absolutely for the benefit of the deceased. What anyone else thinks of that is quite irrelevant.

That is what they have been taught so it comes as no surprise that that is what they believe.

Still goes to show that all these rites as designed to comfort the living more than the dead. I very much doubt the dead will give a shit either way. I have never heard of a dead person coming back to complain that they were given the wrong type of funeral!!

[ad_orientem]

All it shows is that you don't even accept that we believe what we say we believe, which the height of arrogance. We pray for the dead because we believe that it helps the dead.

[Shaker]

Dead people are dead Shaker

I know.

how can any decision taken after their death have any effect on them?

On them directly, as a person? It can't. They're dead. You can stain somebody's memory, however, by giving them a funeral that makes a mockery of their professed beliefs in their lifetime. If somebody is a known atheist, what does it say to the mourners at the funeral and what does it say for the relatives if they arrange a religious funeral? That same point works equally well in reverse, incidentally. At the risk of invoking some sort of internet law, the Jimmy Savile affair demonstrates what can be done to a person's memory and reputation after their death.

Non-religious funerals are rising as it is; there's a case to be made that the visibility of non-religious funerals of several high-profile people in relatively recent years (Ronnie Barker; Bob Monkhouse; Linda Smith; Dave Allen) has helped this process by making people aware that such an option is available. When somebody dies many if not most people are too busy with their grief to want to get stuck into the niceties of funeral planning, which is why there are still so many people content to sit back and let the local vicar step in and take the wheel even though the dear departed never darkened a church's door. Reading around non-religious funerals, one of the most common things said by those left behind is: "I didn't know we could." If there is such a thing as society, no decision no matter how seemingly personal is made in a total vacuum. You can't do anything for the dead aside from put a full stop to their life by giving them a send-off in keeping with it, otherwise you're pissing all over their integrity to give yourself a warm little glow.

Of your scenario happens, the only people to be annoyed/upset or angry would be still living atheists who can't quite accept the truth that dead people are dead or who would regard the trappings of a religious funeral as a waste of money.

I think a great many of the trappings of most funerals religious or not are a waste of money. Like the veterinary profession, it's a money-making racket. Still, there are certain legal and practical niceties to be observed.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

Seriously considering this giving your body to science thing, but if I have anything to do with it the savings in funeral or cremation will go on one massive hangover ( not for me as I will be otherwise engaged ) if not, then I swear I will come back and haunt them.

Steve Wright has just told me this is giving Tuesday.


http://tinyurl.com/h6svqfa

Hey! there are other charities

Gonnagle.

[floo]

Did you know that, at least in England, there is a fund that is ment to help poor families bury their loved ones?  Its part of the Social Fund.  Apparently, the sums it offers haven't increased (in line with inflation) for some 10 years.  However, a bog-standard funeral costs £3700.  Is that realistic?  Is it too much?

Cremation should be offered not burial as that is cheaper, and we are running out of burial space.

[ad_orientem]

Funerals really don't need to be expensive. If possible to be wrapped in cloth would be enough for me with a wooden cross to mark where I've been buried (naturally with an eastward orientation). Orthodox priests, at least, do not accept money for serving a funeral liturgy.

[Bubbles]

Someone I knew once,  gave up their job in a funeral directors because the company was  ripping people off by selling expensive coffins to relatives and then after the funeral or when ever, swapping them into cheap ones. They were reusing them.

Presumably with cremations.

 

Anyway, it upset the person enough to leave.

I'm surprised they burn the boxes, which seems odd...... But I suppose if they didn't no one would buy a coffin.