Author Topic: The Highest Jew  (Read 70677 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2015, 10:46:59 AM »
A young man knocks on the door of a great Talmudic scholar.

"Rabbi, I wish to study Talmud."

“Do you know Aramaic?”

“No."

“Hebrew?”

“No."

“Have you ever studied Torah?”

“No, Rabbi, but I graduated from Harvard summa cum laude in philosophy, and received a PhD from Yale. I'd like to round out my education with a bit of Talmud.”

“I doubt that you are ready for Talmud. It is the broadest and deepest of books. If you wish, however, I will examine you in logic, and if you pass the test I will teach you Talmud.”

"Good. I'm well versed in logic."

"First question. Two burglars come down a chimney. One emerges with a clean face, the other with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?”

”The burglar with the dirty face."

“Wrong. The one with the clean face. Examine the logic. The burglar with a dirty face looks at the one with a clean face and thinks his face is clean. The one with a clean face looks at the burglar with a dirty face and thinks his face is dirty. So the one with the clean face washes.”

“Very clever. Another question please.”

“Two burglars come down a chimney. One emerges with a clean face, the other with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?”

“We established that. The burglar with the clean face washes.”

“Wrong. Both wash. Examine the logic. The one with a dirty face thinks his face is clean. The one with a clean face thinks his face is dirty. So the burglar with a clean face washes. When the one with a dirty face sees him washing, however, he realizes his face must be dirty too. Thus both wash.”

“I didn’t think of that. Please ask me another.”

“Two burglars come down a chimney. One emerges with a clean face, the other with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?”

“Well, we know both wash.”

“Wrong. Neither washes. Examine the logic. The one with the dirty face thinks his face is clean. The one with the clean face thinks his face is dirty. But when clean-face sees that dirty-face doesn’t bother to wash, he also doesn’t bother. So neither washes. As you can see, you are not ready for Talmud.”

"Rabbi, please, give me one more test.”

“Two burglars come down a chimney. One emerges with a clean face, the other with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?”

“Neither!”

“Wrong. And perhaps now you will see why Harvard and Yale cannot prepare you for Talmud. Tell me, how is it possible that two men come down the same chimney, and one emerges with a clean face, while the other has a dirty face?"

"But you've just given me four contradictory answers to the same question! That's impossible!"

"No, my son, that's Talmud.

Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2015, 10:53:13 AM »
Assuming they're religious (being Jewish and being a theist are not synonymous), Jews already have a religion with which they're presumably happy and so don't want or need any attempts at conversion. Jews generally don't proselytise and even initially refuse would-be converts. Take a leaf out of their book.
Yet, as you have pointed out in other posts, they share an important religious element with Christians - that of humanity being fallen and awaiting a Messiah. 

Imagine that you shared a general political viewpoint with someone else but felt that a particular stance they held was erroneous, (the current debate about bombing Raqqah is a good example), would you not feel that it was right for you to point out where you feel they were going wrong?
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Shaker

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2015, 10:54:55 AM »
Yet, as you have pointed out in other posts, they share an important religious element with Christians - that of humanity being fallen and awaiting a Messiah. 

Imagine that you shared a general political viewpoint with someone else but felt that a particular stance they held was erroneous, (the current debate about bombing Raqqah is a good example), would you not feel that it was right for you to point out where you feel they were going wrong?
Point out? Not for two thousand years, no.

Persecution, torture and murder wouldn't cross my mind either.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2015, 10:55:17 AM »
Assuming they're religious (being Jewish and being a theist are not synonymous), Jews already have a religion with which they're presumably happy and so don't want or need any attempts at conversion. Jews generally don't proselytise and even initially refuse would-be converts. Take a leaf out of their book.

It is on account of our Lord, who came from that people and preached to them first, that we desire their conversion. This is why we also pray for them, that the veil will be lifted from their hearts and will accept Christ.
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Shaker

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2015, 10:59:35 AM »
I see that's going well ::)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #80 on: December 02, 2015, 11:11:35 AM »
Yet, as you have pointed out in other posts, they share an important religious element with Christians - that of humanity being fallen and awaiting a Messiah. 

Imagine that you shared a general political viewpoint with someone else but felt that a particular stance they held was erroneous, (the current debate about bombing Raqqah is a good example), would you not feel that it was right for you to point out where you feel they were going wrong?

Oh! In that case you share the same important religious element with Islam, when are you going to become a Muslim? Hope?


NicholasMarks

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2015, 01:53:08 PM »
Rose, Hope, Shaker, ad-orientem, Nearly Sane:

The problem is, you see, that all Abrahamic teachings resolve themselves in the righteous teaching of Jesus Christ...Not just because it carries the most refreshing of all Godly  teaching but because it is built upon a science that goes right to the crux of all science, all life and all Godly devotion.

There is no way round it...we must...and that includes you lot...bow down to the teaching of the highest scientist this universe has ever produced, else take the consequences, which is Biblically summed up as eternal damnation and seeing that even the feeblest of spirits which we all possess is indestructible, that might just mean exactly what it says,


trippymonkey

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2015, 03:47:47 PM »
I wonder just how many HERE think December 25th actually IS Jesus' birthday ?!?!!?  ::) ;)

Nick

ad_orientem

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2015, 04:44:05 PM »
I see that's going well ::)

Well, even the Old Testament, which they accept, refers to them as a stiffnecked people. Still, we have a theological imperative to try.
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Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2015, 04:53:43 PM »
Point out? Not for two thousand years, no.
Perhaps you could expand on this rather obtuse comment.

Quote
Persecution, torture and murder wouldn't cross my mind either.
Perhaps you could also give chapter and verse from the NT that suggests that these horrific events, which I'm not suggesting didn't occur, are acceptable to God.
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Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2015, 04:54:40 PM »
I see that's going well ::)
Well, I understand that the number of Jews becoming Christians is on the increase.
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Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2015, 04:59:33 PM »
Oh! In that case you share the same important religious element with Islam, when are you going to become a Muslim? Hope?
Sorry, Rose, whilst Muslims do look for a Messiah - they look for the second coming of Christ and a Messiah (those have to occur at the same time).  In both Judaism and Christianity, there is only a single person - so, no I won't be becoming a Muslim.
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Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2015, 05:02:14 PM »
Rose, Hope, Shaker, ad-orientem, Nearly Sane:
... Not just because it carries the most refreshing of all Godly  teaching but because it is built upon a science that goes right to the crux of all science, all life and all Godly devotion.
Not quite sure where you get the second half of this comment from - or are you using the words science and - later - scientist in their broadest sense - namely a person of knowledge?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2015, 05:05:43 PM »
Not quite sure where you get the second half of this comment from - or are you using the words science and - later - scientist in their broadest sense - namely a person of knowledge?

Not broadest surely, just archaic?

Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2015, 06:59:53 PM »
Well, I understand that the number of Jews becoming Christians is on the increase.

I think that's a shame.

 :(

Shaker

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2015, 07:04:25 PM »
I think that's a shame.

 :(
I think it's an entirely unevidenced claim.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2015, 07:05:59 PM »
I think that's a shame.

 :(

He's probably referring to "Messianic Jews". Don't worry, they're hardly Christian, still clinging to the Law with many never even having heard of the Creed.
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NicholasMarks

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2015, 07:44:30 PM »
ad_orientem, Shaker, Rose, Nearly Sane, trippymonkey:


In case you have missed the point I am making, I will repeat it...

A new science is emerging out of the evidence contained within the known universe which states categorically that Almighty God is alive and well. He told us via his son Jesus Christ how it all works according what is most important in our combined daily lives...and why righteousness is the highest achievable science. One of its attributes is that it sees behind all the pretense and image-craft which is guided by lies and deceit, and, via the route of God's science, which supports our unhealthy genetics so that we can repair...All because the entire universe is the product of God's Mighty Power, his Dynamic Energy, His Fountain of Living Waters, which unifies the whole of science into a wonderful story that is the inspiration behind the whole of the Holy Bible...and, quite frankly, is our only hope in these terrible days...when resurrection could be a pathway to salvation.



trippymonkey

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2015, 08:38:50 PM »
OH DEAR ?!!??!?  :o ::)

Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2015, 07:42:52 AM »
He's probably referring to "Messianic Jews". Don't worry, they're hardly Christian, still clinging to the Law with many never even having heard of the Creed.

That's why they call themselves Messianic Jews not all of them accept Jesus as any more than a Messiah ( in the Jewish definition of Messiah rather than the Christian one)

I don't think they want to be labelled a Christian

Although fellow Jews often do.

I was fortunate enough to make a friend online with a ex messianic Rabbi and his wife who returned to Orthodox Judaism  he taught me a lot about Orthodox Judaism.

We corresponded for about 6 years. He was a member of Jewish outreach.

His wife's upbringing was Catholic although she was actually a Jewess.  I think that was a knock on effect from WW2.

Very interesting it was.

Not ALL messianic Jews are Christian. 

Anyway why shouldn't they live by Jewish law and keep kosher if they always have?

It's as much a part of their culture and community  as anything else.

Even atheist Jews still follow it, because they always have, it's how they were brought up.

Would you insist an exbuddhist ate meat to prove he no longer followed his previous ideas?

Eating kosher and living a Jewish life doesn't hurt other Christians, they are just following the " Jewish"  Jesus rather than the blond blue eyed one created by people who don't have a Jewish background.

I don't remember the New Testament saying that Jews that followed the law, had to stop.............  Just that Gentiles didn't have to take it all on.








« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 07:50:01 AM by Rose »

ad_orientem

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2015, 08:01:29 AM »
You cannot serve two masters. To continue to circumcise and follow the Law clearly shows that they still reject the Gospel and remain dead in their sins. They must be baptised into the Church. There is no salvation outside the Church.
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trippymonkey

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2015, 09:01:58 AM »
PROVE IT !!  :)

What - you can't ????? OH DEAR ?!!?!?!?  ;) >:(

Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2015, 09:26:12 AM »
PROVE IT !!  :)

What - you can't ????? OH DEAR ?!!?!?!?  ;) >:(
Well, one can prove it by quoting Christ's instructions - but then of course, there are those who regard what he said as either misreported or irrelevant.
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trippymonkey

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2015, 09:44:05 AM »
I know you mean well but then doesn't all this just 'degenerate' into personal experience ??
How do you show it 'works' ???

NicholasMarks

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2015, 09:53:00 AM »
Well, one can prove it by quoting Christ's instructions - but then of course, there are those who regard what he said as either misreported or irrelevant.

We don't need to quote Jesus' instructions we have to live them. We than find that we are partaking in the highest science known to God. A science that with skill and understanding will deliver into our own hands the ability to perform what appeared 2000 years ago to be miracles. Jews, gentiles, Muslims, and all others who can join into that science will have one advantage that no other person will have and that is the power of resurrection which in this day and age will be like manna from Heaven for very many people.