The Highest Jew

[Hope]

Eternal damnation doesn't suit anyone, and no one deserves that IMO.

The problem with the term 'eternal damnation' is that Biblically it refers to something that humans choose, as opposed to something that God does.  It is eternal separation from God, and is dependent on choices that each human makes during ther earthly life.  To suggest that ED 'doesn't suit anyone', is therefore wrong, as people consciously make such decisions.

[Hope]

I think it might be worth pointing out to NM that the 'Highest Jew' is/was the High Priest.  To suggest that Jesus is the highest Jew misses the point in that he made it clear that his constituency was far wider than the Jewish people alone.

[floo]

trippymonkey, Sebastian Toe, Outrider:

trippymonkey...How right you are. There are so many people being taken in by so few...except where the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is concerned and then you will see the many shy away because they prefer their short-term fun and games which guarantees them long-term illness and distress...That's what the 'righteous science' says anyway. Every con-man in the world is taking us all for fools but you prefer to slur the man who died for you.

Sebastian Toe...I'm sure you can read Seb. and I don't go round and round in circles unless there is a righteous benefit.

Outrider:...When something is being introduced it is introduced in the way that the introducer deems appropriate. There are much greater issues involved here and I will do it by righteous prompting and not negative overbearing...even so...I have told you all exactly how you can participate in this science...by peeling back iniquity and finding out, and acting upon, the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.

Sadly NM you go round in ever decreasing circles, none of it making any sense!

[trippymonkey]

Does it matter WHICH Bible one uses
Are all the same???

[Outrider]

Outrider:...When something is being introduced it is introduced in the way that the introducer deems appropriate.

Maybe in religious circles, but you are suggesting that this is science, and in science that's not how it's done. In science you give a brief account of your findings, and the area in which they've been made (which you've done, lovely). Then, in more detail, you describe the hypothesis you're testing, the experiment(s) you've performed to do so, the circumstances that might have affected the findings, the data recovered and the statistical or mathematical processes you've operated on it to validate or refute your hypothesis. That's what I'm asking for.

There are much greater issues involved here and I will do it by righteous prompting and not negative overbearing...

If it's that great an issue then getting the detail right is surely important. There is nothing 'overbearing' about putting your data in the public arena so it can be adequately reviewed.

I have told you all exactly how you can participate in this science...

And I've pointed out, repeatedly, that stealing terminology from scientific findings and randomly inserting them into mystic woo a la Depak Chopra doesn't turn mysticism into science, it turns pseudoscience into jargon-riddled pseudoscience.

by peeling back iniquity and finding out, and acting upon, the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.

I fail to understand how 'iniquity' interacts with any nutrients within the body, but I'm sure the data you will be releasing imminently will make it abundantly clear...

O.

[NicholasMarks]

Rose, Hope, trippymonkey, Floo:

Rose...Salvation is in Jesus Christ...I can only suggest...but what I suggest is this...that you start by reading the Gospels and allow Jesus' righteous teaching to wash over you. Adopt the meekness that he leads us all into and allow adjustments to be made in your attitude so that your thinking is in tune with his righteousness. Don't expect to get it right first time but don't let another's reasoning overpower what Jesus actually says and does...Iniquity can come from many sources, including the various churches and even from me. Righteousness is a code of behaviour not an attitude of 'I am better than you' ...a code of behaviour that allows us to quench our deepest inner thirsts from God's fountain of living waters.

Hope...Jesus tells us what Jesus means and it is best to be guided by him by our own individual analysis...not what others tell you.

Floo...It helps to understand me if you read the Gospels with an open mind. A closed mind simply doesn't get the feeling of hope, compassion, promise or relief from the written word because without a meek and prayerful approach you cannot absorb the righteous fruits on offer.

trippymonkey...I have my preference but any of the main-stream Holy Bibles are adequate. The message leaps out from the pages because it is written in righteous speak and only becomes blurred when iniquity slips in their unwritten subtle adjustments.

[NicholasMarks]

Maybe in religious circles, but you are suggesting that this is science, and in science that's not how it's done. In science you give a brief account of your findings, and the area in which they've been made (which you've done, lovely). Then, in more detail, you describe the hypothesis you're testing, the experiment(s) you've performed to do so, the circumstances that might have affected the findings, the data recovered and the statistical or mathematical processes you've operated on it to validate or refute your hypothesis. That's what I'm asking for.

If it's that great an issue then getting the detail right is surely important. There is nothing 'overbearing' about putting your data in the public arena so it can be adequately reviewed.

And I've pointed out, repeatedly, that stealing terminology from scientific findings and randomly inserting them into mystic woo a la Depak Chopra doesn't turn mysticism into science, it turns pseudoscience into jargon-riddled pseudoscience.

I fail to understand how 'iniquity' interacts with any nutrients within the body, but I'm sure the data you will be releasing imminently will make it abundantly clear...

O.

I'm sure you are right Outrider...but the boss I am taking my lead from says...'Do it my way.'

[Outrider]

I'm sure you are right Outrider...but the boss I am taking my lead from says...'Do it my way.'

So your boss says 'pretend this is science as though the thousands upon thousands of scientists in the world won't notice and call you on it'?

This is the vaunted 'I am the way and the truth' stuff - pseudoscience trying to hijack the work of actual scientists?

O.

[Bubbles]

The problem with the term 'eternal damnation' is that Biblically it refers to something that humans choose, as opposed to something that God does.  It is eternal separation from God, and is dependent on choices that each human makes during ther earthly life.  To suggest that ED 'doesn't suit anyone', is therefore wrong, as people consciously make such decisions.

If you want to choose to believe that Hope, that's up to you. It just sounds like a convenient excuse to do away with any sense of responsibility or compassion by Christians.

Blame the people themselves for their fate ..... Burning in hell for eternity and Christians can just turn around and say, well they asked for it.

People said the same thing about the Jews and the holocaust.

 I don't believe atheists deserve to be separated from God for eternity, or anything else for that matter, just because they are atheists.

The Christian God is supposed to be love.

It's not very loving to cast off people with the excuse that it's their own choice.


It's an excuse, to accept the unacceptable IMO.

[Outrider]

The problem with the term 'eternal damnation' is that Biblically it refers to something that humans choose, as opposed to something that God does.

Which would be a valid point if God were open about his dealings, but this hiding away business and making the 'choice' one of belief (which can't actually be chosen) kind of makes this moral paragon look like he's acting in bad faith.

It is eternal separation from God, and is dependent on choices that each human makes during ther earthly life.

And that justifies eternal punishment? Not even a crime, just 'not believing something for which the evidence is unconvincing' is enough to earn an eternal punishment?

To suggest that ED 'doesn't suit anyone', is therefore wrong, as people consciously make such decisions.

No, they don't. No-one consciously decides to accept eternal damnation, they either believe in it, in which case they avoid it, or they don't believe it, in which case (according to some accounts) they are condemned to it. Beliefs are not a choice.

O.

[NicholasMarks]

Outrider, Rose:

You see what happens when you decide there is no God or, if there is, he would do things your way...You don't send your son too suffer a vicious and spiteful death without there being solid reason behind it and part of that multi-faceted reason is to show us just how vicious and spiteful people can be. There are people alive today who have suffered via that vicious and spiteful way so horrifically that only a fair and honest Judgement could remedy the wrongs inflicted against them but God's hands are tied because never again will he do to the people what his great flood did...No...his plan is to let the vicious and spiteful lead this planet into a state of near destruction and then Almighty God will recover it along with all those who have upbuilt within their own being a righteous spirit.

Like the innocent those sufficiently repentant will be counted as innocent and will enjoy resurrection and subsequently everlasting life, because this is the natural result of God's righteous science...the science drawn from the unification of all the universal forces and which is the only science that can answer all of modern sciences unknowns. The only science that complies with Biblical teaching and which ensures that Jesus will endure long after the great tribulations that are swallowing us all up now and from which the vicious and the spiteful will receive their full Judgement.

[Hope]

Hope...Jesus tells us what Jesus means and it is best to be guided by him by our own individual analysis...not what others tell you.

NM, perhaps you haven't noticed the irony of what you have said here.  As you say, it is not necessarily a good idea to take what others tell one as gospel, and having read said Gospels, not to mention the New Testament as a whole and the Old Testament for contextual understanding, several times, I'm afraid that I have to say that I can find what you seem to want the Bible to mean, absolutely nowhere in said Bible - and certainly not in anything that Jesus says.  Furthermore, what you are arguing wouldn't be deemed to be mainstream understanding or even that of many of the more extreme groups.

[Hope]

And that justifies eternal punishment? Not even a crime, just 'not believing something for which the evidence is unconvincing' is enough to earn an eternal punishment?

If I, as a son was to have told my parents that I wanted nothing to do with them for the rest of my life - let alone theirs - would it have been athem punishing me if they had agreed to honour that choise I'd made?  Those who choose to deny the existence or salvation of God are making a similar decision.  Is it acceptable for God to overrule the decision a human makes during their lifetime?

No, they don't. No-one consciously decides to accept eternal damnation, they either believe in it, in which case they avoid it, or they don't believe it, in which case (according to some accounts) they are condemned to it. Beliefs are not a choice.

The Bible is clear that there are a number of options here, O.  Those humans who, for whatever reason, have never heard the name and acts of Jesus will be judged on the strength of their actions during their lives.  Those who hear of Jesus' acts on their behalf and consciously choose not to accept the gift of salvation will be judged on that choice; those who hear and accept will be judged on that choice.  However, Jesus also makes it clear in the famous passage towards the end of Matthew's Gospel that not everyone who claims his name will be accepted; and goes onto explain that this will occur where the person is only a follower in name but not in action.

I do find it hypocritical when folk like yourself seem so determined to be allowed into eternal life with God that you argue that it is unfair of God to judge you by what you decide whilst alive.

[Bubbles]

Outrider, Rose:

You see what happens when you decide there is no God or, if there is, he would do things your way...You don't send your son too suffer a vicious and spiteful death without there being solid reason behind it and part of that multi-faceted reason is to show us just how vicious and spiteful people can be. There are people alive today who have suffered via that vicious and spiteful way so horrifically that only a fair and honest Judgement could remedy the wrongs inflicted against them but God's hands are tied because never again will he do to the people what his great flood did...No...his plan is to let the vicious and spiteful lead this planet into a state of near destruction and then Almighty God will recover it along with all those who have upbuilt within their own being a righteous spirit.

Like the innocent those sufficiently repentant will be counted as innocent and will enjoy resurrection and subsequently everlasting life, because this is the natural result of God's righteous science...the science drawn from the unification of all the universal forces and which is the only science that can answer all of modern sciences unknowns. The only science that complies with Biblical teaching and which ensures that Jesus will endure long after the great tribulations that are swallowing us all up now and from which the vicious and the spiteful will receive their full Judgement.

You have assumed that all non religious people are vicious and spiteful.

But actually it was the religious who wanted Jesus crucified.

And there have been too many occasions in history when it has been Christians who have tortured and been spiteful and vicious.

It's spiteful and vicious to shut out people purely because they don't happen to believe in God. Given the role religion has played in the past it's not really surprising people reject it.

It was spiteful and vicious of God to send his son in the first place, with an implied threat IMO.

If God created man, and man is imperfect then it is about time God took some responsibility for his own failures IMO.

Sitting back and thinking I am saved while telling myself others who don't accept the same beliefs as me ask for what they get , is not acceptable to me.

A spiteful and  vicious God is one that blames his own failings on his creations and excludes those who make a wrong choice.

An Athiest who makes a selfless sacrifice, say gives his life to save a child, does not deserve an eternity of being excluded by some egotistical God.

An atheist is as valuable and worthy as any Christian, IMO.

If this God is so egotistical and bigoted, What's the point?

Perhaps Christians ought to be renamed " the minions" because they'll follow anything.

Because IMO this Christian claptrap about athiests being deserving of exclusion, is vicious and egotistical, and devalues what is good about the Christian message.

 

Seriously, Jesus made his disciples fishers of men I don't think he was looking for those that are happy to see others burn or be excluded......

IMO It's a selfish thing, to write off people that way.

[Bubbles]

If I, as a son was to have told my parents that I wanted nothing to do with them for the rest of my life - let alone theirs - would it have been athem punishing me if they had agreed to honour that choise I'd made?  Those who choose to deny the existence or salvation of God are making a similar decision.  Is it acceptable for God to overrule the decision a human makes during their lifetime?
The Bible is clear that there are a number of options here, O.  Those humans who, for whatever reason, have never heard the name and acts of Jesus will be judged on the strength of their actions during their lives.  Those who hear of Jesus' acts on their behalf and consciously choose not to accept the gift of salvation will be judged on that choice; those who hear and accept will be judged on that choice.  However, Jesus also makes it clear in the famous passage towards the end of Matthew's Gospel that not everyone who claims his name will be accepted; and goes onto explain that this will occur where the person is only a follower in name but not in action.

I do find it hypocritical when folk like yourself seem so determined to be allowed into eternal life with God that you argue that it is unfair of God to judge you by what you decide whilst alive.

I find it hypocritical when Christians like yourself explain away the exclusion and suffering of others while claiming your God is one of love.

A bit like the witch burners who claimed burning people alive at the stake was good for their soul.

 

[jeremyp]

👍

I need to get reading specs, that thumb up looked like you were giving Shaker the American middle finger.

[jeremyp]

The problem with the term 'eternal damnation' is that Biblically it refers to something that humans choose, as opposed to something that God does.

Incorrect. I never chose to obey his rules and it was his choice to punish me with eternal damnation because I transgressed them, not mine.

[jeremyp]

I'm sure you are right Outrider...but the boss I am taking my lead from says...'Do it my way.'

Yes but whatever way your dos is telling you to do "it", don't call it science because it is not science.

[Bubbles]

I need to get reading specs, that thumb up looked like you were giving Shaker the American middle finger.

 

It's a thumbs up
😇

[NicholasMarks]

Rose, jeremyp, Hope:


Rose...Without you even bothering to read what is in the Holy Bible you condemn me for saying what Jesus told us...that there will be a resurrection when all (the quick and the dead) will be called back to God's Judgement Seat...some will go on to everlasting life and others to eternal damnation...no middle path on offer. This is what happens when evil plunders a wonderful place, they leave it totally devastated and evil is certainly rendering this planet unfit for human consumption. So...the Bible says of this time...nation will rise against nation, their will be food shortages and earthquakes in diverse places and much much more, all happening on a global scale and, even now, getting worse day by day. So, here's your choice...just take what comes because your faith is in the forces that have a proven track record of lying and deceiving on a daily basis or take faith in the one man that lived by a science...a science that proves the spiritual forces of a powerful God and which offers resurrection...a science that says the universe and all its laws are the result of a superabundant, invisible material already detected by modern science but harnessed, fine-tuned, and a powerful life supporting property owned by Almighty God and delivered to us by Jesus Christ.

One option offers everlasting life the other eternal damnation...the middle road doesn't exist so no righteous preparation means the same for all who fail a simple righteous test...Not because of Jesus Christ but because you refuse his righteous help.

jeremyp...As above.

Hope...As above.

[trippymonkey]

ETERNAL DAMNATION ?!?!?!!?
Why the HELL would I want to be in the presence of such an horrendous creature that allows THAT ??

And don't go all ' WELL YOU decided it not GOD. BOLLOX.

This is one very good reason to NOT follow YOUR version of Christianity !!!!

GOOD NIGHT
Nick

[NicholasMarks]

ETERNAL DAMNATION ?!?!?!!?
Why the HELL would I want to be in the presence of such an horrendous creature that allows THAT ??

And don't go all ' WELL YOU decided it not GOD. BOLLOX.

This is one very good reason to NOT follow YOUR version of Christianity !!!!

GOOD NIGHT
Nick

Swearing isn't considered very righteous and neither is condemning Almighty God without justification. If you explore the science you find that for anyone of us to have life we have to have a spirit. That spirit is either weak or strong or something in between. Jesus teaches us how to upbuild a strong righteous spirit which carries our individual profile and can be resurrected. Yours, at the moment, is not very powerful and incapable of resurrection...because of this it is prone to genetic manipulation and as we all now know imperfect genetics can go a bit wild.

Jesus warned us that a weak spirit will be unable to make resurrection and told us how to put that right...failure or success is down to you/us...eternal damnation is the curse of an unresurrected spirit...according to the science and Jesus Christ, anyway...it is what Judgement is all about and why I am telling you this is so that you can repent...that is an act of loving kindness on my part, though you wont see it that way.

Goodnight.



 

[trippymonkey]

Oh YEAH You're SO loving you give off this ridiculous idea !?!?!!?
I'd love to see you up against a Muslim, just as self deluded as  yourself !!!

[floo]

Swearing isn't considered very righteous and neither is condemning Almighty God without justification. If you explore the science you find that for anyone of us to have life we have to have a spirit. That spirit is either weak or strong or something in between. Jesus teaches us how to upbuild a strong righteous spirit which carries our individual profile and can be resurrected. Yours, at the moment, is not very powerful and incapable of resurrection...because of this it is prone to genetic manipulation and as we all now know imperfect genetics can go a bit wild.

Jesus warned us that a weak spirit will be unable to make resurrection and told us how to put that right...failure or success is down to you/us...eternal damnation is the curse of an unresurrected spirit...according to the science and Jesus Christ, anyway...it is what Judgement is all about and why I am telling you this is so that you can repent...that is an act of loving kindness on my part, though you wont see it that way.

Goodnight.

I don't give a monkey's about righteousness, and any decent person should condemn the deity if the deeds attributed had any credence!

[NicholasMarks]

Oh YEAH You're SO loving you give off this ridiculous idea !?!?!!?
I'd love to see you up against a Muslim, just as self deluded as  yourself !!!

The problem here is that how can a Muslim, a Jew, a Christian or indeed an Atheist deny a universal science owned by a universal God and delivered to us by his much loved, only begotten son...Jesus Christ??

So, ok, ithat science is a little above your comprehension as yet but it will be the only way forward after all evil and all their blood brothers have rendered this planet uninhabitable. Those are the ones you and Floo should direct your anger towards not those who lovingly try to bring you knowledge that will help us through these terrible times.

Still...just as all those who have suffered delivering Jesus accurate word...those who fail in the resurrection can enjoy the fruits of their own labours which, in both instances, we are all working so industrially to secure. For some, it will mean resurrection and everlasting life...for others it will mean flitting around the Earth's global ether, out of harms way...and never again will anyone living have the desire to interact with that ether.