'Battle of Orgreave' inquiry call.

[Hope]

I should state that I wasn't in the UK at th time of the Battle of Orgreave - or the bulk of the Miners' Strike - but heard a lot about the whole situation from the BBC and from friends at the time.

This year -the 30th Anniversary - has seen a couple of calls for a fully independent inquiry into what happened.  What do folk here think about such a call?  I think that I would like to see one, especially having spoken to a number of ex-miners who are colleagues at the heritage railway I work at near Bridgend and their stories about not only police brutality but also miners' deliberate goading of the police - suggesting that an inquiry might bring some interesting facts about the spinning and reporting of events that will be 'detrimental' to both sides of the debate.

[floo]

I should state that I wasn't in the UK at th time of the Battle of Orgreave - or the bulk of the Miners' Strike - but heard a lot about the whole situation from the BBC and from friends at the time.

This year -the 30th Anniversary - has seen a couple of calls for a fully independent inquiry into what happened.  What do folk here think about such a call?  I think that I would like to see one, especially having spoken to a number of ex-miners who are colleagues at the heritage railway I work at near Bridgend and their stories about not only police brutality but also miners' deliberate goading of the police - suggesting that an inquiry might bring some interesting facts about the spinning and reporting of events that will be 'detrimental' to both sides of the debate.

It is more than likely there were faults on both sides.

[Aruntraveller]

It is more than likely there were faults on both sides.

Is it?

What are your reasons for stating this?

Are they based on any evidence?

On my brief brush with this issue when I was living in Nottingham in the 80's the police were very heavy handed even with those of us not directly linked to the strike.

When travelling to see my Mum who lived in Mansfield 15 miles from Nottingham we were subjected to road blocks, questioning of where we were going, and your reasons for going there; these were not imo the hallmarks of a free democracy. It did feel rather as if one had wandered into Eastern Europe.

The police over-used their powers whatever the supposed provocation was.

[floo]

Is it?

What are your reasons for stating this?

Are they based on any evidence?

On my brief brush with this issue when I was living in Nottingham in the 80's the police were very heavy handed even with those of us not directly linked to the strike.

When travelling to see my Mum who lived in Mansfield 15 miles from Nottingham we were subjected to road blocks, questioning of where we were going, and your reasons for going there; these were not imo the hallmarks of a free democracy. It did feel rather as if one had wandered into Eastern Europe.

The police over-used their powers whatever the supposed provocation was.

From my recollection of the events all those years ago the miners didn't exactly behave very well either!

[Hope]

Is it?

What are your reasons for stating this?

Are they based on any evidence?

Trent, one the ex-miners at the railway I'm involved with has stated to me that he and few other folk from the Bridgend area travelled up to Orgreave for the picket and explained how the pickets were encouraged to goad the authorioties in any way that they could.  I see no reason to disbelieve him, especially as he was arrested at a later stage in the strike here in South Wales.

[Aruntraveller]

From my recollection of the events all those years ago the miners didn't exactly behave very well either!

I'm sure - but it was only their livelihoods at risk after all Floo. Nothing for you to worry your pretty little head about.

[Maeght]

Some miners may not have behaved very well but surely the Police should have certain standards they have to uphold. My recollection is that at times they seemed to be taking sides and taking the battle to the miners rather than trying to keep the peace and uphold the law.

[floo]

Some miners may not have behaved very well but surely the Police should have certain standards they have to uphold. My recollection is that at times they seemed to be taking sides and taking the battle to the miners rather than trying to keep the peace and uphold the law.

Some of those miners were rioting if I remember correctly so I have no sympathy for those scum! If peaceful protesters were hurt that is a different matter.

[Hope]

I'm sure - but it was only their livelihoods at risk after all Floo. Nothing for you to worry your pretty little head about.

And often the picketing miners, etc. were putting other workers' livelihoods at risk, Trent.

[Aruntraveller]

Some of those miners were rioting if I remember correctly so I have no sympathy for those scum! If peaceful protesters were hurt that is a different matter.

Oh I see that knee jerk is still working.

Never mind eh Floo - I expect you will never have to worry about losing your livelihood.

At what point would you consider rioters not to be scum - when they have no food, heat, shelter? - just when do they cross over from being scum to being desperate human beings Floo?

[Aruntraveller]

And often the picketing miners, etc. were putting other workers' livelihoods at risk, Trent.

If you have no other tools at your disposal what would you do?

Not nearly as many jobs that were lost in this area that were dependant on coal mining and were lost because of government policy - and Notts got off relatively lightly.

[floo]

Oh I see that knee jerk is still working.

Never mind eh Floo - I expect you will never have to worry about losing your livelihood.

At what point would you consider rioters not to be scum - when they have no food, heat, shelter? - just when do they cross over from being scum to being desperate human beings Floo?

Rioting is EVIL and is not the way to make a point!

[Maeght]

Some of those miners were rioting if I remember correctly so I have no sympathy for those scum! If peaceful protesters were hurt that is a different matter.

Its easy to throw words like scum around Floo but you have to take into consideration the big picture and the actions and attitudes of the Police as well. I'm quite sure there were agitators and trouble makers within the miners - but equally sure, from what I saw, that the Police were up for a fight and went beyond what would normally be expected of the Police Force. They were difficult times but my recollection is thinking that the Police were being used in a way which they shouldn't have been to take the fight to the miners.

[Shaker]

This thread reminds me of the Battle of the Beanfield - another time that the rozzers were turned out en masse as agents of the regime of the day - hired muscle for Thatcher.

[Aruntraveller]

Rioting is EVIL and is not the way to make a point!

That is easy to say from a comfortable armchair. Other people in other parts of this country and the world do not have that comfort.

That is not to say that some rioting isn't unecessary - it's just that I do not think that a blanket judgement on such issues helps anyone.

[floo]

That is easy to say from a comfortable armchair. Other people in other parts of this country and the world do not have that comfort.

That is not to say that some rioting isn't unecessary - it's just that I do not think that a blanket judgement on such issues helps anyone.

We will have to agree to differ on this topic.

[Aruntraveller]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hidden-motives/201108/understanding-why-people-riot

You could give this a read if you want to see where I am coming from on this. On the other hand you could ignore it.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Is it?

When travelling to see my Mum who lived in Mansfield 15 miles from Nottingham we were subjected to road blocks, questioning of where we were going, and your reasons for going there; these were not imo the hallmarks of a free democracy. It did feel rather as if one had wandered into Eastern Europe.

The police over-used their powers whatever the supposed provocation was.

FTR I was told exactly the same thing by a striking miner who lived in Betteshanger, one of the Kent mining villages.

[Rhiannon]

It wasn't just livelihoods that went, was it? It was a way of life.

Desperate people do desperate things.

[Hope]

At what point would you consider rioters not to be scum - when they have no food, heat, shelter? - just when do they cross over from being scum to being desperate human beings Floo?

Incidentally, Trent, in mid 1984 (sept, iirc) I went up one of the mining valleys in S.Wales with some friends to help collect some furniture that was being distributed amongst the (adult) children of a family whose grandfather had died a couple of months earlier.  I was surprised to see a central heating boiler outsiude practically every 4th house as we went through the villages.  They all looked pretty new, and was later told that none were more than 5 years old.  Apparently, for the past few years, every mining family had done this kind of replacement as a result of the HP arrangement that the mining unions had done with - I assume - British Gas.  Each replacement involved a slightly higher monthly repayment but the miners clearly felt that they had the money available to continue with the process.

[Jack Knave]

Waste of money. Until there are laws to bring any wrong doings in such matters what will be gained? Our politicians know that they can act with near impunity.

[Hope]

Waste of money. Until there are laws to bring any wrong doings in such matters what will be gained? Our politicians know that they can act with near impunity.

I assume you mean all those involved in politics - which technically means you and I, JK. 

[john]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_2512000/2512469.stm

Miners jailed for murder

Just for balance sake. I make no judgment personally but think it is time to let the whole thing go.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_2512000/2512469.stm

Miners jailed for murder

Just for balance sake. I make no judgment personally but think it is time to let the whole thing go.

I remember the conference of the former CPSA that year, one delegate held up a placard with the wording "Two Miners Jailed for Murder" during a debate which was intended to be a display of solidarity with the NUM. The strike was contentious within the trade union movement since there was unease that the NUM had not called a national ballot.

[Jack Knave]

I assume you mean all those involved in politics - which technically means you and I, JK.

I assume you know what the technical and professional meaning of the word politician is, Hope?