Was Jesus gay?

[Hope]

Keep repeating this to yourself until the truth of it finally dawns on you..

It seems sad that you haven't taken your own advice during the years I've been discussing with you.

[Hope]

I think what is wrong with it, Brownie, is the assumption that we are all sinners who have done something worthy of death, and that he had to die to redeem us. That is manifestly not true, although I don't deny that there as some very nasty people out there.

Len, as you have made it clear that you don't believe in God, I think we can rightly assume that you don't believe in the concept of spiritual life and death - which is the context in which this 'death' is mentioned.  Without any understanding of the concept, your comment that "I think what is wrong with it, ..., is the assumption that we are all sinners who have done something worthy of death, and that he had to die to redeem us" makes no sense.

[Rhiannon]

Trent, I'd have thought that being regarded as on a par with everyone else - a sinner - is quite sufficient for most people.  Why should being treated as equally as this be offensive? (note that it is only the likes of you who pick on the extremes when trying to make such a point as you have).

Is that really true, Hope? You've never linked homosexuality with criminal or harmful activity in any of your posts?

And I know Trent can speak for himself but who exactly is 'the likes of you'?

[Hope]

Sassy

Are there only 10?

I thought there were many more.

Yes, there are only 10 Commandments, BR.  None of the other instructions given by God that are included in the pages of the Old and New Testaments go outside of the parameters laid out by them. 

[Hope]

Is that really true, Hope? You've never linked homosexuality with criminal or harmful activity in any of your posts?

No, I never linked homosexuality with criminal or harmful activity in any of my posts - in fact I've never linked it with sin.  What I havethough done is link homosexual activity with sin and compared it to a wide range of what Christian regard as 'sin'.  I have never linked it exclusively what might be regarded - from a purely social perspective - as the extreme forms of wrong.

I'm not saying that it can't be - but then certain heterosexual behaviours can be linked in this way as well  - such as rape.

... but who exactly is 'the likes of you'?

The people here who try to link homosexual behaviour exclusively to certain 'extreme' sins to make a point. 

[Rhiannon]

No, I never linked homosexuality with criminal or harmful activity in any of my posts - in fact I've never linked it with sin.  What I havethough done is link homosexual activity with sin and compared it to a wide range of what Christian regard as 'sin'.  I have never linked it exclusively what might be regarded - from a purely social perspective - as the extreme forms of wrong.

I'm not saying that it can't be - but then certain heterosexual behaviours can be linked in this way as well  - such as rape.

Active homosexuals are on a par with rapists?

[Leonard James]

Len, as you have made it clear that you don't believe in God, I think we can rightly assume that you don't believe in the concept of spiritual life and death - which is the context in which this 'death' is mentioned.  Without any understanding of the concept, your comment that "I think what is wrong with it, ..., is the assumption that we are all sinners who have done something worthy of death, and that he had to die to redeem us" makes no sense.

I simply approach the matter from the way I was taught it when young.

[Hope]

Active homosexuals are on a par with rapists?

As I understand the law, someone can be accused of either homosexual or heterosexual rape, Rhi.

[Hope]

I simply approach the matter from the way I was taught it when young.

And that was?

[Rhiannon]

As I understand the law, someone can be accused of either homosexual or heterosexual rape, Rhi.

That wasn't what I asked. Answer the question.

[floo]

Active homosexuals are on a par with rapists?

I am not sure exactly what Hope is trying to say, but if that is what he is implying that is awful!

[Leonard James]

And that was?

That we would go to hell after death if we didn't accept Jesus as our saviour.

[Rhiannon]

I am not sure exactly what Hope is trying to say, but if that is what he is implying that is awful!

Rapist a can be gay or straight; in fact the law now recognises any penetrative act as rape so rapists can be male or female.

I asked if active homosexuals are on a par with rapists. I'm awaiting an answer.

[Rhiannon]

What I havethough done is link homosexual activity with sin and compared it to a wide range of what Christian regard as 'sin'.  I have never linked it exclusively what might be regarded - from a purely social perspective - as the extreme forms of wrong.

The use of the word 'exclusively' there is telling.

[Hope]

The use of the word 'exclusively' there is telling.

Precisely, which is what I have been arguing for the past few years.  I have always linked it to 'sin' or a variety of examples of sin from the full range of said concept.

[Hope]

I asked if active homosexuals are on a par with rapists. I'm awaiting an answer.

Well, is rape a sin in your view?  I know you are 'awaiting an answer' but I've given the answer to this exact question on a number of occasion, most recently in my post of 05:23:31 PM

[Hope]

That we would go to hell after death if we didn't accept Jesus as our saviour.

OK, if that is what you were taught, I can understand where you are coming from.  Whether that is actually what the Jesus taught is very open to debate.

[Hope]

I am not sure exactly what Hope is trying to say, but if that is what he is implying that is awful!

You know exactly waht I'm trying tosay, Floo - we did this same discussion on other forums years ago.  The problem is that, if you acknowledge what I'm saying, it means that its less easy for you and others to ridicule my understanding of what the Bible teaches.

[Rhiannon]

Well, is rape a sin in your view?  I know you are 'awaiting an answer' but I've given the answer to this exact question on a number of occasion, most recently in my post of 05:23:31 PM

I don't recognise 'sin'; that's an absurdity invented by your religion.

[Aruntraveller]

The people here who try to link homosexual behaviour exclusively to certain 'extreme' sins to make a point. 

So are you going to take that up with Sassy who linked homosexuality to murder.

It was not I who linked it to anything at all - which if you had read the thread for comprehension you would have understood.

I mean she could have linked it to stealing jelly babies - but she didn't she linked it to murder. I expect you to take her to task immediately.

Although I won't hold my breath.

[Nearly Sane]

As Hope notes, we have been through this and should Trentvoyager and his partner have a quick roll in the hay this evening, Hope thinks in terms of sin that that is the equivalent of the Holocaust.

[Aruntraveller]

As Hope notes, we haven't been through this and should Trentvoyager and his partner have a quick roll in the hat this evening, Hope thinks in terms of sin that that is the equivalent of the Holocaust.

I wish 

[Rhiannon]

To be fair NS, I do remember that now you mention it.

He probably linked it to having a flutter on the horses or something though as well so that's ok.

[Leonard James]

OK, if that is what you were taught, I can understand where you are coming from.  Whether that is actually what the Jesus taught is very open to debate.

Apart from the historical facts and the good advice, the whole of the Bible is open to debate.

[Hope]

Apart from the historical facts and the good advice, the whole of the Bible is open to debate.

The sdame could be said about just about every document that is written by anyone other than the originator of the ideas involved, which is why proper research into them is so important before using them to make any given point.  In other words, just because your and my parents brought us up in the way that they did (whatever that might have been) it doesn't necessarily mean that they used any given documentation in the way that it had been created/developed.  The same will go for the ways that you and I have brought up children of ours, or they of theirs - unless we, as parents study everything we teach in detail.