Author Topic: Was Jesus gay?  (Read 76281 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #375 on: March 08, 2016, 08:56:23 PM »
Yet it exists across the board.  It is not illegal to be angry with someone, but if that anger ends up in violence, there is a criminal case.  There is nothing illegal about disliking another person - be that for reasons of intellect, skin colour, gender, age, ...; but as soon as that dislike turns to action, a crime has been committed.
The problem is, Rhi, that this 'seeking to impoise' is not only confined to Christianity, it has over the centuries been seen in atheism, Islam, Hinduism - and just about every other '-ism' in the world.  That suggests to me that it is external to religion and internal to humanity as a whole.

Stop digging the hole. So when my friends John and George got married, it was like violence? Or is that just every time they have some form of sex, you think that is the same as punching someone or gassing Jews?

Rhiannon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #376 on: March 08, 2016, 09:04:55 PM »
Stop digging the hole. So when my friends John and George got married, it was like violence? Or is that just every time they have some form of sex, you think that is the same as punching someone or gassing Jews?

Hope exemplifies the notion of a belief in a god made in one's own image. And it's best not to say what I think of a god who sees no difference between homosexual acts and gassing Jews.

Hope

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #377 on: March 08, 2016, 09:07:49 PM »
No, you're using words wrongly and not in a way I'm familiar with. Still, Shaker's put you right. You'll know for the future.
The fact that you, or anyone here isn't familiar with the way a word is used, doesn't make its use wrong.  For instance, a prize example of what you are getting at is the word 'homophobia'.  This was coined by supporters of gay rights in the late 1960s as a way of making out that people feared homosexuals, thus making out that they had mental condition.  More recently, in his 1980 book "Christianity, social tolerance, and homosexuality: Gay people in Western Europe from the beginning of the Christian era to the fourteenth century. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, John Boswell cited the etymology of homophobia - the union of homos and phobos - as the basis for his criticism of the term and for his suggestion in 1980 of the alternative homosexophobia.  Then, again in 1980, in their article "A strategy for the measurement of homophobia. Journal of Homosexuality 5. pp. 357–72. doi:10.1300/J082v05n04_02. ISSN 0091-8369. OCLC 115532547. PMID 7204951, Hudson and Ricketts coined the term homonegativism for their research in order to avoid homophobia, which they regarded as being unscientific in its presumption of motivation.

Down the decades thare have been other attempts to do away with the term, because of its lack of clarity and/or clinical validity.

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As for your 'body of evidence' bollockery, let me help you out. We don't need one for 'heterosexual relationships' or 'homosexual relationships', just 'relationships', the benefits of which are self-evident. There is no distinction that needs to be made.
OK, perhaps you want to let Gordon and one or two of the others know this.  I have been asked by such folk to present evidence for the validity of heterosexual relationships.  Furthermore, there must necessarily be a body of evidence to support the claim by the likes of Shakes that 'homosexual relationships' are acceptable.

In other words, I'm simply using the terminology that I am being challenged with.

Finally, since hoo-l relationships have a host of differences to hetero- ones - biologically, psychologically, etc - I'm not sure that one can legitimately bundle them into the same category.
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Hope

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #378 on: March 08, 2016, 09:10:17 PM »
Hope exemplifies the notion of a belief in a god made in one's own image
And I suppose you would know all about deities made in one's own image,Rhi?  The idea is about as far from my understanding as you can get.
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Gordon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #379 on: March 08, 2016, 09:12:51 PM »
Yet it exists across the board.  It is not illegal to be angry with someone, but if that anger ends up in violence, there is a criminal case.  There is nothing illegal about disliking another person - be that for reasons of intellect, skin colour, gender, age, ...; but as soon as that dislike turns to action, a crime has been committed.

The logical progression from this diatribe of yours is, presumably, that same-sex attraction isn't wrong but homosexual activity is - on what basis and on whose authority?

The most nauseating aspect in your argument is, of course, your inclusion of homosexuality within the same paradigm that includes criminal acts and antisocial behaviours, along with the obvious tu quoque in a spurious attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

The only reasonable conclusion is that the version of Christianity you subscribe to is implicitly homophobic. Thankfully, and despite all the homophobic bleating, at least here in the UK society has moved on, so no wonder the influence of Christianity is declining: and thank goodness that it is! 

Rhiannon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #380 on: March 08, 2016, 09:21:37 PM »
Well yes, G.

Equally awful though in my opinion is the desire on the part of people like Hope to seek to deny gay people the right to a loving sexual relationship, with or without marriage. To be honest I find something inhuman about it. I used to think it idolatry - 'it says it in the Bible so I'll suspend my humanity on order for a spot of book worship' - but actually it's nothing more nor less than bigotry bordering on hatred.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:32:08 PM by Rhiannon »

Gordon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #381 on: March 08, 2016, 09:22:32 PM »
OK, perhaps you want to let Gordon and one or two of the others know this.  I have been asked by such folk to present evidence for the validity of heterosexual relationships.  Furthermore, there must necessarily be a body of evidence to support the claim by the likes of Shakes that 'homosexual relationships' are acceptable.

In other words, I'm simply using the terminology that I am being challenged with.

Utter drivel - you've been asked to justify your position that homosexual relationships are somehow invalid or less worthy than heterosexual relationships! So why not stop wriggling and do so.

Speaking for myself I regard all loving relationships between consenting adults as being equally valid and legitimate: the gender mix being irrelevant.

Gordon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #382 on: March 08, 2016, 09:27:15 PM »
Well yes, G.

Equally awful though in my opinion is the desire on the part of people like Hope to seek to deny gay people the right to a loving sexual relationship, with or within marriage. To be honest I find something inhuman about it. I used to think it idolatry - 'it says it in the Bible so I'll suspend my humanity on order for a spot of book worship' - but actually it's nothing more nor less than bigotry bordering on hatred.

Yep - adjectives like 'cruel', 'disrespectful', 'bigoted', 'homophobic' and, ironically, 'unchristian' come to mind - and we are told that Christianity is Good News!

Shaker

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #383 on: March 08, 2016, 09:32:01 PM »
OK, perhaps you want to let Gordon and one or two of the others know this.
Why does Gordon in particular need to know?
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I have been asked by such folk to present evidence for the validity of heterosexual relationships.  Furthermore, there must necessarily be a body of evidence to support the claim by the likes of Shakes that 'homosexual relationships' are acceptable.
That's easy enough - the good things that heterosexual couples get out of their relationships, homosexuals get out of their relationships too. I think heterosexual relationships are acceptable; why wouldn't I think homosexual ones are as well? I would need a reason, a good reason, for thinking that they're not; I've not been provided with one. What possible reason would I have for not thinking so, given that I'm in entire agreement with Gordon's view that: "Speaking for myself I regard all loving relationships between consenting adults as being equally valid and legitimate: the gender mix being irrelevant"?

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Finally, since hoo-l relationships have a host of differences to hetero- ones - biologically, psychologically, etc - I'm not sure that one can legitimately bundle them into the same category.
What "host of differences", especially "psychological" ones?

Are there psychological differences in heterosexual relationships between people where there is a very large age gap between partners than between partners of a similar age?

Are there psychological differences in heterosexual relationships between people where there is a very large financial disparity between partners than between partners of the same financial status?

Are there psychological differences in heterosexual relationships between partners from different racial/ethnic backgrounds than between partners of the same racial/ethnic group?

Or does this "difference" business only kick in between heterosexuals and homosexuals because you think it does?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:42:30 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #384 on: March 08, 2016, 09:38:43 PM »
I suspect it kicks in because he wants it to. Not just thinks it does. It fits with the pattern of dishonesty and distortion.

OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #385 on: March 09, 2016, 01:49:11 AM »
Same sex marriage is against the Navajo and Cherokee tribal law, it is illegal. These tribes represent 600,000 thousand natives Americans. No law passed by the Supreme Court of the USA can force these tribes to allow same sex marriage.

"It's not for us"   Otto Tso, Navajo medicine man, a PAGAN.

Rhiannon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #386 on: March 09, 2016, 07:47:25 AM »
So pagans can be stuck in an intolerant time-warp too. And?

That doesn't address what Hope is saying.

Bubbles

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #387 on: March 09, 2016, 08:02:44 AM »
Jesus never considered it important enough ( as far as we know), to pass comment on.


Bubbles

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #388 on: March 09, 2016, 08:10:46 AM »
Interestingly this next link asserts that Jesus did comment, but that  it is largely missed.

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html



« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 08:18:11 AM by Rose »

floo

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #389 on: March 09, 2016, 08:25:48 AM »
In your opinion.


In the opinion of any decent human being!

Sassy

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #390 on: March 09, 2016, 08:39:47 AM »
I have and you didn't answer my questions.

Yes or no will suffice to each question.

No you are trying to change the subject. It was you who was shown to be making false allegations.
When the evidence was shown you tried to move goal post.
ALL questions were answered. Including the fact that marriage itself is NOT a sin. Hope clearly pointed out to you what you asked about him. I clearly shown yet again you trying to make something false out.

The fact remains that you could not use Hope being married as a sin.
You cannot accuse christians of using homosexuality as a comparison for murder or adultery and therefore no christian could be classing homosexuality, murder and adultery as being equal as there is no level to sin. All guilty of sin whatever it is.
However homosexuality, murder and adultery meant being put to death instantly.
You were asked to logically show how you could even think a comparison could be made and failed with thinking no one would notice you ignored it and changed the subject to Hope being married.

FACT: You tried to accuse Christians of doing something you could not even show logical motives or reasons for believing yourself.

That shows you failed NO ONE ELSE. It shows your accusations false and that you won't and can't even try to substantiate logical reasons for your false claim.
TRUTH.
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Hope

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #391 on: March 09, 2016, 09:13:08 AM »
What does this meaningless waffle have to do with either homosexuality or homosexual acts, as you apparently want to differentiate them?
It highlights that there are differences between 'orientation/tendency towards' and 'behaviour'.  It is you who would appear to want to make out that there aren't.
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Hope

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #392 on: March 09, 2016, 09:14:02 AM »

In the opinion of any decent human being!
And there are many of those who believe as I do, Floo.  The issue is still only one of opinion.
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Shaker

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #393 on: March 09, 2016, 09:14:31 AM »
It highlights that there are differences between 'orientation/tendency towards' and 'behaviour'.  It is you who would appear to want to make out that there aren't.
More that in the case of homosexuality any difference is an utter irrelevance.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #394 on: March 09, 2016, 09:15:42 AM »
And there are many of those who believe as I do, Floo.
Not many in the overall scheme of things, and dying out, thankfully.

Cohort replacement, as they call it.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Hope

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #395 on: March 09, 2016, 09:17:09 AM »
Utter drivel - you've been asked to justify your position that homosexual relationships are somehow invalid or less worthy than heterosexual relationships! So why not stop wriggling and do so.
What, so that you can promptly shut down the thread as soon as I start making points - as happened towards the end of last year.

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Speaking for myself I regard all loving relationships between consenting adults as being equally valid and legitimate: the gender mix being irrelevant.
So, you are happy that a consenting adult should have a relationship with another consenting adult even if it means that their respective partners or spouses (and any children they have) are hurt and damaged in the process?
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Shaker

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #396 on: March 09, 2016, 09:20:02 AM »
What, so that you can promptly shut down the thread as soon as I start making points - as happened towards the end of last year?
You could always try framing the concatenation of fallacy and assertion that you regard as an argument in a manner that doesn't contravene the rules - how about that?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Hope

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #397 on: March 09, 2016, 09:20:11 AM »
Not many in the overall scheme of things, and dying out, thankfully.
Are you suggesting that decent human beings are dying out?   ;)
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Rhiannon

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #398 on: March 09, 2016, 09:21:10 AM »
It highlights that there are differences between 'orientation/tendency towards' and 'behaviour'.  It is you who would appear to want to make out that there aren't.

There's no more difference than for heterosexuals.

Shaker

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Re: Was Jesus gay?
« Reply #399 on: March 09, 2016, 09:22:24 AM »
Are you suggesting that decent human beings are dying out?   ;)
No, exactly the opposite - that ignorant, backward people with prejudiced views are. Do at least maintain an appearance of trying to keep up.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.