Was Jesus gay?

[Rhiannon]

Are you suggesting that decent human beings are dying out?   

Hope, if you equate denying to others the kind of fulfilling loving sexual relationship that you've been free to enjoy with decency, you are seriously deluded to say the least. Trust me, decency isn't what I see in Christian homophobia any more than any other kind.

As a follower of the God of love shouldn't you err on the side of caution and allow people to have such relationships? I mean, it's not your place to judge, is it?

[floo]

And there are many of those who believe as I do, Floo.  The issue is still only one of opinion.

Like thinking people who aren't Caucasian are lesser mortals, is that a matter of opinion too?

[Brownie]

Hope, if you equate denying to others the kind of fulfilling loving sexual relationship that you've been free to enjoy with decency, you are seriously deluded to say the least. Trust me, decency isn't what I see in Christian homophobia any more than any other kind.

As a follower of the God of love shouldn't you err on the side of caution and allow people to have such relationships? I mean, it's not your place to judge, is it?

Quite right but Hope doesn't have to allow gay relationships.  They have been 'allowed' by law for a very long time and in more recent times, have a legal basis on a par with straight couples.  So all Hope has to do is accept, or not accept, but either way the status quo is what it is.

As so many Christians now accept gay partnerships, perhaps you could at least open your mind a bit Hope.  You may find you eventually accept that it is OK for gay people to be married and that God doesn't mind;  He created gay people after all, it is us who have made a big deal out of it, like so many things.

[Bubbles]

Like thinking people who aren't Caucasian are lesser mortals, is that a matter of opinion too?

yes,  just like there are Black supremacists with a differing opinion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy


It's all someone's opinion.
 

[Rhiannon]

Hope doesn't have to go anything, true. But he and his church still demean and exclude regardless of secular law. The Baptist pastor in my village has told me that she welcomes gay people but she has the right to tell them that 'The Lord' condemns them if they have sexual relations. Hope doesn't live in a bubble and his poisonous position still spreads.

[Gordon]

What, so that you can promptly shut down the thread as soon as I start making points - as happened towards the end of last year.

If I did, I don't recall the details, it will have been because Rules were contravened in some way by some of those contributing: all you need do is make your points without contravening any Rules, and if you do that then I'll ensure that your posts stay up even if some responses to them have to be removed in order to retain the thread.

So, you are happy that a consenting adult should have a relationship with another consenting adult even if it means that their respective partners or spouses (and any children they have) are hurt and damaged in the process?

Sadly this happens irrespective of the gender of those involved: it is part of life 'warts and all'. 

[Khatru]

In your opinion.

Whether the relationship is homosexual or heterosexual, adultery is a breach of trust and likely to cause pain and upset to your partner.

Both heterosexuality and homosexuality occur naturally in the world at large; people can't help the way they are hardwired. Yet you would class homosexuals as the moral equivalent of murderers and liars.

 

[floo]

I am of the opinion that being bigoted towards gays is as bad as being racist.

[Bubbles]

I am of the opinion that being bigoted towards gays is as bad as being racist.

Yes, and people have used the bible to be racist too.

🌹

[floo]

Yes, and people have used the bible to be racist too.

🌹

That flipping book is often used as an excuse for disgusting behaviour. If something is wrong by all decent standards, it can't be excused because some believe the deity sanctions it!

[Khatru]

Yet it is an opinion that has no evidence to support it.  In other words, its precisely what you don't want to allow it to be - an argumentum ad populum.  Remember that until pretty recently, the understanding of most people was that both were as harmful as each other.

No evidence?

While secularism has thankfully decriminalised homosexuality, the relics of centuries of Abrahamic religiosity remain.

Gays are still considered by many believers to be genetically deformed, sick or evil.  Their only basis for coming to this conclusion is what believers glean from their superstitious mumbo jumbo.  There was a time, not that long ago when it got so bad that many gays were even compelled to agree that there was indeed something wrong with them.  They even tried to toe the heterosexual line and tried living a life pretending to be "normal, "straight" or whatever label the believers gave to heterosexuality.  Sadly, there are pockets of superstition where this ill-informed nonsense still takes place and believers gather to "pray away the gay".

Those that didn't kowtow to superstition still had to spend their lives on the fringes of society where they became a joke, a figure of fun ridiculed and laughed at in all-too-many TV shows and sit-coms.

How we treat homosexuals has improved in leaps and bounds and the love you can now see between same-sex couples stands as testament to victory over religious hatred.

[Khatru]

Same sex marriage is against the Navajo and Cherokee tribal law, it is illegal. These tribes represent 600,000 thousand natives Americans. No law passed by the Supreme Court of the USA can force these tribes to allow same sex marriage.

"It's not for us"   Otto Tso, Navajo medicine man, a PAGAN.

It's nice to see a Christian showing respect for indigenous American native law.

Too bad that respect didn't exist 150 years ago when Christians slaughtered native Americans in their millions.

[Bubbles]

No evidence?

While secularism has thankfully decriminalised homosexuality, the relics of centuries of Abrahamic religiosity remain.

Gays are still considered by many believers to be genetically deformed, sick or evil.  Their only basis for coming to this conclusion is what believers glean from their superstitious mumbo jumbo.  There was a time, not that long ago when it got so bad that many gays were even compelled to agree that there was indeed something wrong with them.  They even tried to toe the heterosexual line and tried living a life pretending to be "normal, "straight" or whatever label the believers gave to heterosexuality.  Sadly, there are pockets of superstition where this ill-informed nonsense still takes place and believers gather to "pray away the gay".

Those that didn't kowtow to superstition still had to spend their lives on the fringes of society where they became a joke, a figure of fun ridiculed and laughed at in all-too-many TV shows and sit-coms.

How we treat homosexuals has improved in leaps and bounds and the love you can now see between same-sex couples stands as testament to victory over religious hatred.

To be fair though, some of the biggest send ups of gay people have been done by gay people.

In a strange sort of way, maybe it's got them accepted.

One of the most shocking comedians I ever heard live, was black and gay.

I don't think I have ever heard such a lot of shockingly politically incorrect views in one place before.

 

[Khatru]

Yes, and people have used the bible to be racist too.

🌹

They have indeed.

It's laughable that some of the most vocal anti-gay crusaders are Pentecostals - many of whom are black.

They want to use the Bible as justification to deny equal rights for gays in the same way that many white people used the Bible to deny equal rights for blacks.

[Sassy]

So pagans can be stuck in an intolerant time-warp too. And?

That doesn't address what Hope is saying.

Did you believe homosexuality was wrong when you were as you "claimed" a Christian believer?

It is a simple enough question.

[Shaker]

There's something up with your keyboard - it's inserting quotation marks randomly in the wrong place.

Keyboards can be fixed or replaced, however.

[Sassy]

There's something up with your keyboard - it's inserting quotation marks randomly in the wrong place.

Keyboards can be fixed or replaced, however.

Nah! should have been 'claimed' but I wanted double emphasis so wrote as if I was actually saying it.

Shaker said "Keyboards etc" so maybe you can see we can use quotation marks as we choose. Just as we can denote SHOUT capitals as shouting or emphasis on what we are saying.

Come on Steven you are really petty now. You know you will never overcome God or Christians because you simply do not 'HAVE THE TRUTH'.

That is how all changes begin when writing... someone uses something differently.

Thing is... some do not have the intelligence to see what they are doing.

Zip it, Zippy...LOL...

[Shaker]

Shaker said "Keyboards etc"

Yes, as in, keyboards can be fixed or replaced but stupid is far harder to tackle. 

so maybe you can see we can use quotation marks as we choose.

No, actually, you can't use them as you choose. Not if you want to write clear, comprehensible English, though I realise that that's never been a consideration for you.

Thing is... some do not have the intelligence to see what they are doing.

Says somebody who can't string a sentence together.

And who thinks there's no gravity on planets other than Earth.

And who thinks that without weighted suits the astronauts who walked on the moon would have floated off into space.

[Rhiannon]

Did you believe homosexuality was wrong when you were as you "claimed" a Christian believer?

It is a simple enough question.

Have to hand it to you, Sass, you've actually managed to pull off asking a simple question, in spite of the random punctuation. Go you.

No, never did think it was wrong, not for a nanosecond, was a card carrying member of LGCM.

Now you will say that means I was never a Christian in the first place. Well, right back at you with that one. Think Jesus said something about loving one another and you know, I'm just not feeling it from you right now.

[Brownie]

Hope doesn't have to go anything, true. But he and his church still demean and exclude regardless of secular law. The Baptist pastor in my village has told me that she welcomes gay people but she has the right to tell them that 'The Lord' condemns them if they have sexual relations. Hope doesn't live in a bubble and his poisonous position still spreads.

I didn't know about Hope's church (remember, I've not been back and posting that long.  Only recently I discovered Hope was a man!).  I also feel sad about the Baptist church close to you.

No-one can give advice unless they are qualified in some way - especially on a forum - but I cannot help thinking it is a good idea for believers to try different churches.  It opens the mind.  Also not a bad idea to just be on your own and do independent study, at least for a while (my 'while' has lasted a very long time  ).

[Hope]

Hope doesn't have to go anything, true. But he and his church still demean and exclude regardless of secular law. The Baptist pastor in my village has told me that she welcomes gay people but she has the right to tell them that 'The Lord' condemns them if they have sexual relations. Hope doesn't live in a bubble and his poisonous position still spreads.

Rhi, churches aren't inevitably bound by secular law.  For instance, my pastor is quite within his rights to tell a heterosexual couple living together but not married that they are living sinfully.   According to secular law, they are perfectly allowed to live in this way.

[Rhiannon]

Rhi, churches aren't inevitably bound by secular law.  For instance, my pastor is quite within his rights to tell a heterosexual couple living together but not married that they are living sinfully.   According to secular law, they are perfectly allowed to live in this way.

Of course churches aren't bound by secular law. Where they fall down is not being based on love and tolerance. They should be ahead of secular law on that one.

[Sassy]

Yes, as in, keyboards can be fixed or replaced but stupid is far harder to tackle.  No, actually, you can't use them as you choose. Not if you want to write clear, comprehensible English, though I realise that that's never been a consideration for you. Says somebody who can't string a sentence together.

And who thinks there's no gravity on planets other than Earth.

And who thinks that without weighted suits the astronauts who walked on the moon would have floated off into space.

Tut! Tut!  You are losing your ability to produce arguments. You never produce evidence and even your insults have become droll. A new definition to sarcasm being completely witless.

Whatever you say... you still lag miles behind when it comes to the knowledge of Christianity.
And you having nothing by way of intelligent rebuttals. We can do this forever but when it comes to Christ and God, you are always going to lose.

[BeRational]

Sassy

You do understand that the Moon has sufficient gravity to hold things onto it.

To get off the moon you need to reach the speed of 2.38 km/sec.

If you are not travelling at that speed you will fall back to the moon surface.

[Sassy]

Have to hand it to you, Sass, you've actually managed to pull off asking a simple question, in spite of the random punctuation. Go you.

No, never did think it was wrong, not for a nanosecond, was a card carrying member of LGCM.

Now you will say that means I was never a Christian in the first place. Well, right back at you with that one. Think Jesus said something about loving one another and you know, I'm just not feeling it from you right now.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
The answer would have been... the bible and the covenant of Moses said that homosexuality was wrong for them.
Just as  homosexuality is for homosexuals, Christianity is for Christians and each must choose their own paths.
Christ commands us to love one another and to love God.
We are called out of the world to live for God in Christ not judge the world or those who do not follow Christ.

Maybe the truth is that whilst you believed - you were always in the world rather than in the word.

Sometimes, it is not the punctuation but the ability to know and understand what you are writing about.
You may have punctuation but you don't know a thing about God, love, Christ and Christianity.

Just as your guessing about myself and reply was totally off base.