Floods

[Rhiannon]

I'm sure we've all been watching the shocking pictures from the north of England.

Here's hoping all our members are ok.

[floo]

It is indeed shocking, those poor people are never likely to feel safe in their homes again. They will have zero chance of selling their homes or getting flood insurance!

[Jack Knave]

Unprecedented stuff. Almost unbelievable the levels that have been reached and there's even more rain to come!!! And for some people this isn't the first time they have been flooded out...

[Gordon]

It must be awful for those affected: the damage is bad enough, but when it comes to homes there is the significance of that in terms of family history and memories etc.

I see David Cameron is visiting the affected areas: I have though people there had suffered enough already. 

[Hope]

It must be awful for those affected: the damage is bad enough, but when it comes to homes there is the significance of that in terms of family history and memories etc.

perhaps the only rtal positive to come out of this is that we, here in Britain, now realise that Climate Change won't only affect the low-lying islands of the Pacific and those parts of Bangladesh that are barely above sea-level.  Just sad that so many people have had to be affected for ths lesson to be learnt.  Was interested to hear someone (from the Environment Agency, iirc) say last night that as part of their urgent review they will be take the suggestion that no more houses should be allowed to be built on flood plains seriously.

I see David Cameron is visiting the affected areas: I have though people there had suffered enough already.

Surely better him that Corbyn or Sturgeon - neither of whom have any real influence on how much money could be being spent on the concept (and I use the term intentionally) of flood defences.

[Shaker]

Money or no money, if my house and prized belongings had been destroyed I'd be happy to see Sturgeon and absolutely delighted to see Corbyn - I'd think I'd be meeting somebody who actually gave a damn rather than some shiny-faced Etonian Tory boy parading his puffy, shiny red face in front of the cameras.

[Gordon]

Surely better him that Corbyn or Sturgeon - neither of whom have any real influence on how much money could be being spent on the concept (and I use the term intentionally) of flood defences.

Our FM does here in Scotland, plus both she and Jeremy Corbyn come across as having some humanity - as opposed to a rich Tory-boy who seems happy to let the likes of Ian Duncan Smith do what he does.

[Rhiannon]

Even the right-wing press seems to be acknowledging a north/south divide over spending on flood defences.

[Hope]

Money or no money, if my house and prized belongings had been destroyed I'd be happy to see Sturgeon and absolutely delighted to see Corbyn - I'd think I'd be meeting somebody who actually gave a damn rather than some shiny-faced Etonian Tory boy parading his puffy, shiny red face in front of the cameras.

'Actually give a damn' and the names Sturgeon and Corbyn aren't terms that would normally come together in my mind - not that it and 'Cameron' does either.

[Shaker]

'Actually give a damn' and the names Sturgeon and Corbyn aren't terms that would normally come together in my mind

Well I see it, as does Gordon.

Obviously it's just you.

[Hope]

Our FM does here in Scotland, plus both she and Jeremy Corbyn come across as having some humanity - as opposed to a rich Tory-boy who seems happy to let the likes of Ian Duncan Smith do what he does.

Its all very well criticising IDS - and I'd agree that he and the Tory party got the timetable for Welfare Reform wrong - but this is an area that successive governments back to Thatcher and even Wilson have failed to deal with properly.

[Hope]

Even the right-wing press seems to be acknowledging a north/south divide over spending on flood defences.

I suppose it depends on what aspects of flooding one is dealing with.  In this country we have two distinct forms of flooding - coastal and inland.  OK, ther consequences are very similar, but the causes are often very different.  No doubt, the sums spent on the Somerset floods a year ago were massive - but can one justifiably regard the rural west of England as 'South England, a term that is almost always reserved for London and the Home Counties in political terms (and remebere that the comment from 'Northern' leaders yesterday (or was it Sunday) was a political, rather than geographical comment.

The try to make political gain out of an unprecedented and largely uncalculable (especially 5 or 10 years ahead of the event, when flood defences would be being planned) is to be playing politics with people.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the Tories are any better over all, just that in this situation, even the Labour Party, when they were putting in flood defences post 2000 and 2005 hadn't anticipated this level of rainfall.

[Shaker]

I suppose it depends on what aspects of flooding one is dealing with.

The "huge quantities of water where it shouldn't be" aspect seems to be the current front runner.

[Hope]

Well I see it, as does Gordon.

Obviously it's just you.

Sorry, but I'm not sure any politician whilst I've been alive can really be regarded as 'Actually giv(ing) a damn'.  They're generally too concerned about ensuring that their party, and if possible themselves, gets elected/re-elected at the next election, resulting in extremely short-term thinking and planning.  We have seen this in the way in which we, as a nation - and the West as a whole - have played at being concerned about climate change for the last 30-odd years.  We can see that in the way in which our politicians have sought to create lots of inconsequential jobs that don't really do a great deal for society - just to massage the unemployment figures to look good, rather than investing in more strategic and long-term programmes.

OK, perhaps I'm cynical, but I'm afraid that I see far too many mistakes being made, often time and time again, by successive governments.

[Hope]

The "huge quantities of water where it shouldn't be" aspect seems to be the current front runner.

No, Shaker, that is not the current front runner.  The current front runner is excessive rainfall, whereas last year it was a mix of excessive rainfall and unexpectedly high sea storms that overwhelmed sea defences.  Simply looking at the symptom - "huge quantities of water where it shouldn't be" - is the wrong approach if we want to stop that symptom again.

[Shaker]

Whoosh ...

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

As I listened to various flood victims on the telly and radio yesterday one thing angered me the most, flood victims phoning their insurance companies and being put on hold or having to wait to speak to someone.

This is where our PM could have pointed the finger, tell the insurance companies to get off their fat arses and do something meaningful to help their customers

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

I thought most people already knew that insurance companies are a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Guess not.

[Hope]

This is where our PM could have pointed the finger, tell the insurance companies to get off their fat arses and do something meaningful to help their customers

Gonnagle.

In fact, Gonners, I'm not sure that telling 'the insurance companies to get off their fat arses' would actually help.  If you remember after the first two bouts of flooding in Cumbria many of those who were interviewed were full of praise for the response time of their insurance companies.  Instead of having a go at these companies, who no-one would ever want to suggest are perfect (some of their decisions smack of sheer dumbness) - perhaps Cameron ought to be suggesting a national flood insurance number/reception team that is accessible quickly.

Remember that in some cases, a given company will now potentially have 4 seperate flood claims from the same person or family, which they will have to pull together into one.  Furthermore, if I remember correctly, several have their HQs in Northern England, and may well have lost call centres and other means of access, to the very floods they are being called about!!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

perhaps Cameron ought to be suggesting a national flood insurance number/reception team that is accessible quickly.

That works for me, a dedicated team, sounds right.

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

I thought most people already knew that insurance companies are a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Guess not.

Some are, some less so.  Not sure that the legislation governing them helps them feel that they have to improve their act.

Our house last flooded in about 1979 (and only the garden at that).  180m further downstream from us the houses - that were built within 10 yards of the brook - some years after ours, were flooding every 3 or 4 years until the early 2000s.  Welsh Water spent a massive amount in about 2002 on massively redesigning the river bed and banks of the by then wider brook/river so as to improve water flow and allow it to flood onto the moors it runs through when it gets very high.  4 or 5 years ago, the insurance companies increased the dostance from a flood prone area from 150 metres to something like 3.5 miles!!  One of my wife's clients lives 800m from his nearest watercourse, which agin used to get flooded regularly, and now has problems getting decent insurance.  The irony is that he lives on a hillside about 50 metres above the river, and is never going to be flooded unless we gt a flood of Noahic proportions.

[Rhiannon]

As I understand it a big problem is that many individuals and businesses couldn't get flood insurance to start with. Businesses are going to go under with all the implications that has for owners and employees. And families face ruin because they won't be able to foot the bill for repairs and will have homes worth far less than what they paid for them. 

[Enki]

One of my sons, a firefighter, is on flood duty today in York. I remember the floods in the Hull area in 2007. Where we live is close to Hull. I remember taking the dog for a walk(we live on a hill) and about 100m down the road, I watched in horror as the scene unfolded, with water rushing off the edge of the Wolds, past and through houses lower down, making some nearby streets little more than rivers with wheelie bins floating past. Most of that water ended up in Hull itself. Many people lived in caravans on their property for up to a year, before they could move back in. I feel for the people and businesses of York, Leeds. Carlisle and the many areas that have been flooded so far. Their anguish and problems are just beginning.

[Hope]

As I understand it a big problem is that many individuals and businesses couldn't get flood insurance to start with. Businesses are going to go under with all the implications that has for owners and employees. And families face ruin because they won't be able to foot the bill for repairs and will have homes worth far less than what they paid for them. 

That is probably a fair summary, Rhi - and that inability to get insurance is something that the Government needs to deal with, by forcing insurance companies to provide meaningful insurance to everyone.  I realise that such companies have to make a profit in order to make the payments thay are required to make, but ...

[Jack Knave]

Sorry, but I'm not sure any politician whilst I've been alive can really be regarded as 'Actually giv(ing) a damn'.  They're generally too concerned about ensuring that their party, and if possible themselves, gets elected/re-elected at the next election, resulting in extremely short-term thinking and planning.  We have seen this in the way in which we, as a nation - and the West as a whole - have played at being concerned about climate change for the last 30-odd years.  We can see that in the way in which our politicians have sought to create lots of inconsequential jobs that don't really do a great deal for society - just to massage the unemployment figures to look good, rather than investing in more strategic and long-term programmes.

OK, perhaps I'm cynical, but I'm afraid that I see far too many mistakes being made, often time and time again, by successive governments.

No. That 's about the upshot of it.