Gideon's Bibles

[Shaker]

Arseholeist

Hee hee, Vlad is still pissed from Christmas and isn't even bothering 

[jeremyp]

Hee hee, Vlad is still pissed from Christmas and isn't even bothering 

An arseholeist is one who believes that arseholes exist. The existence of toilet paper would seem to put that beyond doubt.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I argue that the Bible should not be censored and you call me a Stalinist.

My inability to take you seriously is definitely coming to a middle.

Didn't you want it not to be distributed as well though?

[jeremyp]

Didn't you want it not to be distributed as well though?

I didn't want it to be "handed out". In the context it was clear this meant in schools and hotels. I have no objection to people putting copies of the Bible in bookshops and libraries - under fiction.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I didn't want it to be "handed out". In the context it was clear this meant in schools and hotels. I have no objection to people putting copies of the Bible in bookshops and libraries - under fiction.

Yeah, your sort has no trouble with The God Delusion being displayed in the science section at Waterstones.

[Rhiannon]

I didn't want it to be "handed out". In the context it was clear this meant in schools and hotels. I have no objection to people putting copies of the Bible in bookshops and libraries - under fiction.

While they are at it they can ensure churches put signs up saying. 'For Entertainment Purposes Only', same as spiritualist mediums have to. Why single out one lot of beliefs that claim much but can't prove their claims?

[Shaker]

Yeah, your sort has no trouble with The God Delusion being displayed in the science section at Waterstones.

This sort does, as the book doesn't belong in the Science section. The vast bulk of Dawkins's books do, but that one doesn't.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yeah, your sort has no trouble with The God Delusion being displayed in the science section at Waterstones.

That is clearly the wrong place to put it as it isn't a science book although Dawkins is a scientist.

Many of his earlier books are clearly popular science books and fully deserve to be in the science section, along with Brief History of Time etc, but not The God Delusion.

[jeremyp]

Yeah, your sort has no trouble with The God Delusion being displayed in the science section at Waterstones.

That would be a clear misclassification.

[jeremyp]

And to be completely fair, the Bible isn't entirely fiction.

[ippy]

ippy, taking them to a bin outside the hotel doesn't work either.  Most hotels have an arrangement with Gideons that they can come in and replace the bibles that have been taken (and many do get taken) or thrown away, on a regular basis.

It's far worse if you don't at least try Hope.

lppy

[ippy]

They belong to the hotel Ippy, plus someone else might choose to read it, even if you don't. They are usually hidden in a drawer.

I wouldn't dream of throwing them out when staying in a hotel anymore than I would throw something out if I was a guest in someone else's house.

Why would you do that?

 

They probably think you are like one of those people who take the towels and bathrobes when they leave, except your fetish is bibles 

Why or how would anyone get sexual pleasure from taking and then throwing a bible into a waste bin.?

ippy

[ProfessorDavey]

They belong to the hotel Ippy, plus someone else might choose to read it, even if you don't. They are usually hidden in a drawer.

I wouldn't dream of throwing them out when staying in a hotel anymore than I would throw something out if I was a guest in someone else's house.

Why would you do that?

 

They probably think you are like one of those people who take the towels and bathrobes when they leave, except your fetish is bibles 

The solution is, of course, for the hotel chains themselves to refuse to accept and distribute the bibles. And I gather a number are now.

It has always seemed bizarre to me that a hotel should feel it appropriate to accept, what is in effect, promotional material for one specific religion, to be placed in every single room.

The notion that this is appropriate in our highly multicultural society where most people aren't religious and those that are actively religious, seems way past its sell by date.

Kind of akin to the rule in desert island discs that you get the Bible and Shakespeare 'free' and get one other book. That's merely a bit of fun, unlike allowing religious organisation access to hotel rooms to distribute promotional material. If you want to read a bible, bring your own.

[ProfessorDavey]

Throwing away hotel property, IMO is almost as bad as stealing.

But are they hotel property?

I'm not sure they actually are - aren't they the property of the Gideon organisation and the hotel has allow them to place their books in the hotel's rooms.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes they are the property of the hotel, they are discretely put in a drawer for the use of guests if they wish to make use of it.

Why do you assume that? Unless the ownership is actually passed from the Gideon organisation to the hotel then I think they remain the property of the Gideon organisation.

However anything that doesn't belong to you, belongs to the hotel.

Not necessarily - if I asked whether a hotel would be prepared to display marketing materials, or even examples of luxury products, those wouldn't necessarily become the property of the hotel. They would effectively be items 'on loan' from the provider for a particular purpose.

I think it is the height of rudeness to throw away a book that belongs to the hotel and is subtly put in a drawer ( for the use of other guests) because of some prejudice some hold.

It's uneccessary.

Indeed it might be rude, but not really rude to the hotel - but rude to the Gideon organisation that provided the books. The only real issue to the hotel is that their staff are likely to need to spend the company's time 're-stocking' the bibles provided by Gideon.

Much better for them to say - 'sure this was something that hotels used to do back in the 20thC, but it isn't really appropriate in this day and age. We'd prefer not to be seen to 'side' with any particular religion so we won't be having your books in our hotel rooms.

I see no reason why the hotel cannot hold a small number of 'emergency' bibles (and korans etc) if a customer request one as they'd forgotten their own - just as hotels often will provide toothbrushes etc.

But to assume that every room should have a bible (but no other religious book) really isn't appropriate in this day and age.

[ProfessorDavey]

I do actually agree with you on many points, but I do think if someone has the urge to throw away a book hidden away in a drawer ( they have no reason to even open )when they are probably only staying in for a night or two, has a psychological problem.

If they go to the length of throwing it away off site, it shows an even bigger problem.

IMO it's not normal behaviour.

Most people don't bother to open the drawer.

Once it even gave me and my husband a bit of a laugh ( and he is an Athiest ) as the one in the drawer was updated with modern language and it sounded hilarious.

The bibles do belong to the hotel because the Gideons give them, not loan them.

If you don't want a bible in your room you can always stay at a travelodge

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726128/Travelodge-removes-Bible-room.html

I think they have taken the most sensible way, by keeping some behind the reception.

Most travellers are not looking for religious inspiration, I think the c of e is out of touch with the modern traveller.

I think hotels do it because it's what used to be done, if guests don't want it they need to give sensible feedback, not aggravating the hotels by binning things.

🌹

I too think that Travelodge have a sensible approach - not to place bibles in every room, but to have some (and I presume korans etc) available at reception for anyone who wants one (which I suspect will be very few).

I still don't agree that you can presume that the hotel owns the bibles. It depends entirely on what the 'agreement' between the hotel and the Gideons is.

I don't think the agreement is - we give you some bibles - they are yours, your property to do with as you wish. No I think the agreement is that the hotel agrees to place Gideon's bibles in each hotel room (although clearly Travelodge won't) - if that is the case the bibles may well remain the property of the Gideons, with the hotel agreeing merely to perform the service of placing one in each room.

There are plenty of other examples (often in luxury hotels) - for example pieces of art-work which are displayed in the public space or in rooms but are remain the property of the company producing them and are placed in the rooms as marketing in the hope that visitors may buy them. They aren't the property of the hotel, nor or the guest, yet may well be in the hotel room.

[Shaker]

The solution is, of course, for the hotel chains themselves to refuse to accept and distribute the bibles. And I gather a number are now.

It has always seemed bizarre to me that a hotel should feel it appropriate to accept, what is in effect, promotional material for one specific religion, to be placed in every single room.

The notion that this is appropriate in our highly multicultural society where most people aren't religious and those that are actively religious, seems way past its sell by date.

Kind of akin to the rule in desert island discs that you get the Bible and Shakespeare 'free' and get one other book. That's merely a bit of fun, unlike allowing religious organisation access to hotel rooms to distribute promotional material. If you want to read a bible, bring your own.

Best comment so far. It really is a weird situation. Yet again, you wouldn't get it with a political party.

[Hope]

Best comment so far. It really is a weird situation. Yet again, you wouldn't get it with a political party.

So, you'r esupoortive of throwing out the bay with the bath water?

[Shaker]

So, you'r esupoortive of throwing out the bay with the bath water?

Pardon?

[Gordon]

So, you'r esupoortive of throwing out the bay with the bath water?

You must have a very large bath (and yes I do realise it is a typo)  .

[ProfessorDavey]

So, you'r esupoortive of throwing out the bay with the bath water?

What baby?

I don't see why a bible placed in every hotel room whether or not it is wanted can be considered a 'baby' in 'baby and bathwater' context.

If you want to read a bible in a hotel room then you are very welcome to bring your own along. And the Travelodge approach seems sensible too - that the hotel keeps a few copies of key books (e.g. sacred texts) that are available on request to those that might suddenly need them but have forgotten to bring their own.

Given that a hotel room is effectively 'home' for the guest during their stay I think it is perfectly reasonable for guests not to have sacred texts automatically provided in their 'temporary home' unless that is something they actively want - in which case, again, they can bring their own or request one from reception.

[Hope]

What baby?

I don't see why a bible placed in every hotel room whether or not it is wanted can be considered a 'baby' in 'baby and bathwater' context.

If having a Bible in a hotel room can be shown to have saved lives, which I understand it can be, to suddenly ditch them, or have them available only on request seems to be pointless.  If someone comes into a hotel with the intention of committing suicide or suffering from some other traumatic, is having a Bible only available 'on request' a sensible precaution, when having them in rooms where someone can pick them up unpremeditatedly, and without the emnbarrassment of having to ask someone for it, really a good idea?  After all, one isn't required to pick the Bible up when its in your room, so there is no coercion going on.

Given that a hotel room is effectively 'home' for the guest during their stay I think it is perfectly reasonable for guests not to have sacred texts automatically provided in their 'temporary home' unless that is something they actively want - in which case, again, they can bring their own or request one from reception.

There are volumes and documents in my home that I have absolutely no interest in.  I suspect that there are in yours too, especially if you have a partner/spouse/children/friend who come in and out of the place.  Are you going to say that those documents shouldn't be allowed into the place?

[floo]

I doubt a Bible has a life, more likely someone might take their own if they believe some of the stuff in it to be true!

A mentally ill cousin of mine tried to commit suicide after some Biblical verses were brought to his attention by a misguided born again!

[Shaker]

If having a Bible in a hotel room can be shown to have saved lives, which I understand it can be

Understand on what basis? Where's the evidence for this assertion?

to suddenly ditch them, or have them available only on request seems to be pointless.

The point very much remains the one that Prof. Diddy outlined in #41 above.

If someone comes into a hotel with the intention of committing suicide or suffering from some other traumatic, is having a Bible only available 'on request' a sensible precaution, when having them in rooms where someone can pick them up unpremeditatedly, and without the emnbarrassment of having to ask someone for it, really a good idea?

Interesting that you see asking for a Bible as something embarrassing 

After all, one isn't required to pick the Bible up when its in your room, so there is no coercion going on.

It shouldn't be there in the first place for the reasons that PD has already outlined: the principle one being that it looks like an endorsement of only one religion - arguably one interpretation of one religion - which doesn't include all the other religions, or indeed any other belief system such as a political philosophy. Why is it only a Gideon Bible that has to be foisted onto hotel chains - why are they not there too? British society is often called multicultural and so it is, but the vast bulk of the population are non-religious.

There are volumes and documents in my home that I have absolutely no interest in.  I suspect that there are in yours too, especially if you have a partner/spouse/children/friend who come in and out of the place.  Are you going to say that those documents shouldn't be allowed into the place?

Private homes are not commercial businesses unless they also happen to be B & Bs.

[ProfessorDavey]

If having a Bible in a hotel room can be shown to have saved lives, which I understand it can be, to suddenly ditch them, or have them available only on request seems to be pointless.  If someone comes into a hotel with the intention of committing suicide or suffering from some other traumatic, is having a Bible only available 'on request' a sensible precaution, when having them in rooms where someone can pick them up unpremeditatedly, and without the emnbarrassment of having to ask someone for it, really a good idea?  After all, one isn't required to pick the Bible up when its in your room, so there is no coercion going on.

Sorry - but you are really talking non-sense. Are you really expecting anyone to take your notion of Gideon as suicide prevention strategy seriously.

If you really think this then hiding it in a drawer is out - must be on show. What about on bridges, cliffs, level crossings etc. In your nonsense notion they should all have prominently displayed bibles - just in case.

I think the ability to call the Samaritan (or other support organisation) would be much more helpful. So perhaps hotels should be required to have big 'Samaritans' posters displayed just in case.

There are volumes and documents in my home that I have absolutely no interest in.  I suspect that there are in yours too, especially if you have a partner/spouse/children/friend who come in and out of the place.  Are you going to say that those documents shouldn't be allowed into the place?

But that's your choice. What we are talking about here is a room, automatically 'pre-installed' with a bible whether the guest wants it or not.

If a bible it important to you bring your own.