Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women

[Rhiannon]

Reading some of Saira Khan's piece reminded me of an element of the culture that was around when I was growing up - white working class. But an element is what it was - same as for the culture that Khan writes about. Misogyny doesn't recognise cultural or national perimeters.

[JP]

where?

Okay, I withdraw that one

[Nearly Sane]

Given that it's mentioned on at least one national newspapers front pages every other day or so, in what way is it taboo?

[Owlswing]

And I think it's going to get worse. It's what happens when people feel swamped.

Because it's taboo and almost considered racist to mention it, it's going to get a lot worse.

The trouble is it's what is going to happen when migrants/refugees attack the resident population.

To attack refugee children though, that's even more base and sick.

People can be so horrible sometimes, when they get into mobs both refugees and residents.

This report is just a little skewed in favour of the immigrants.

Another police report shows that the station in question has been "taken over by all-male teenage immigrant gangs" who rob male vistors and grope female ones, any female who protests at this treatment usually winds up getting beating. Virtually no Swede travels via this station anymore, most prferring towalk to the stations either side of this one.

These male teen-age gang members were the "children" mentioned in the report.

[Owlswing]

Given that it's mentioned on at least one national newspapers front pages every other day or so, in what way is it taboo?

The papers can get away with it - the public usually will not.

[Nearly Sane]

The papers can get away with it - the public usually will not.

Apart from being pish, see your posts, a definition of taboo that means four or five front pages a week on national papers is beyond luducrous.

[Nearly Sane]

It's a taboo in the sense you are regarded almost as an outcast for saying so, and the papers that do reflect the veiw seem to be being dismissed as hysterical.


1.
prohibited or restricted by social custom.

it's our social custom to protect those in danger that come in asylum seekers for example.

Some really obnoxious people have used that to protect them being deported for crimes they have committed elsewhere.

But we have often made sure they are represented and their case heard fairly, even to paying for it at great expense in legal aid.

I seem to see very little restriction and given that it is on the front pages of national newspapers, it obviously isn't prohibited.


You aren't being restricted on here either.

[wigginhall]

Well, comments columns after online articles are often full of white racists, who don't seem inhibited at all.   I suppose they are not yet saying, bring back concentration camps, and yellow stars for refugees, but they are not far off.   Does this show a taboo?

[Nearly Sane]

No, you aren't branded as anything as soon as you try and discuss it. There are some who might discuss it who are racist though, surely?

[wigginhall]

Rose, you got the wrong end of the stick there.  I'm not saying that anyone who criticizes immigration is a white racist.   But comments columns are full of white racist comments, that is, a kind of herrenvolk approach. 

[Hope]

Was interested to see, (in this morning's newspaper review on BBC Breakfast ?), one of the MPs from Birmingham saying that it seemed no worse that what happens there of a Saturday night.

Is this naivity, truth, or what?

[wigginhall]

Was interested to see, (in this morning's newspaper review on BBC Breakfast ?), one of the MPs from Birmingham saying that it seemed no worse that what happens there of a Saturday night.

Is this naivity, truth, or what?

Some Germans are saying that about the Oktoberfest, I mean, in terms of frequent sexual assaults on women.   I have no idea if this is remotely true, and it's very difficult to get any information.   I saw a bar-maid quoted, who said the worst culprits are Brits and Italians, but this is anecdata.

[JP]

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

It is clearly just a bunch of white racists stirring it all up, after all the same thing as happened in Cologne happens in Birmingham every Saturday night.

The rabid left tell us so. These same people also blamed the thousands of victims in the recent grooming scandals that the same rabid left did their very best to bury and keep secret. 

White people are the problem here, white slags and white male supremacists.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes of course.

But we do need to do something.

It's just what.

It's like I say, if you push people past their tolerance levels it gets nasty and the racists win.

That attack on women was really bad news, you would have thought they had more sense.

The racists will win if morons continue to behave like that.

And other morons respond by attacking anyone who doesn't look Swedish or who are refugee children. ( even if they were teenagers)

These things escalate.

Can I suggest then that saying you cannot discuss without being branded a racist is both incorrect and inflammatory itself? It's like those who talk about having homosexuality stuffed down their throat and it cuts off discussion itself, as it immediately implies a problem with one position.

[Rhiannon]

Some Germans are saying that about the Oktoberfest, I mean, in terms of frequent sexual assaults on women.   I have no idea if this is remotely true, and it's very difficult to get any information.   I saw a bar-maid quoted, who said the worst culprits are Brits and Italians, but this is anecdata.

Yes, I was reading about the problem of women being assaulted at gigs. The problem doesn't lie solely within one religion or culture.

[JP]

Birmingham, it happens in Birmingham every weekend and if it happens there, then I think we can safely assume it happens in all big cities, gigs and gatherings. Surely this has happened in Cologne before? Can someone please tell the German minister who called a “completely new dimension of crime” that they are incorrect. Oganised and co-ordinated sexual assault, pah, you could tell him it happens in Birmingham every week.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, there are certain things society has decided are to be frowned upon, that doesn't make a case that anything you happen to suggest is taboo, is actually taboo and when it is voiced by establishment areas, such as newspapers, MPs, political parties, then rhat's not one of those areas.


We have restrictions on this board, should we just remove them is it OK if I were to refer to Jewish people as cockrriaxhes, or call for homosexuality to be banned because all gay people sexuality assault babies?

Do we need to look at free speech, absolutely, now and in the future but it's never been a completely free right. We have exceptionally strong libel laws and that protects the establishment.

Do we have to talk about immigration without people being called racist or rabid, absolutely. Are some who talk about immigration racist or rabid, absolutely. But there is a strong part of the establishment ready willing and able to talk about immigration in terms that certainly do not seem as if it's taboo.


There is too much of tendency from many sides to immediately jump in and ask for people to be fired for comments. At the same time I think that some people deserved to be fired e.g. when a colleague was told that they deserved raping repeatedly by a senior manager.

There is a tendency to use the numpties on one side. stating that they are trying to shut down debate, to in turn deflect from numpties on one's own side. This we had the narrative of the cybernats during the referendum, which used the idiots twittering about traitors and other pish to try and portray one side as trying to shout the other down, whilst ignoring the equally ludicrous shite on the no side, or claiming that was different.

In these days of social media where any twat can twitter, and moron message board, it is always easy to find loons on any side. There are a whole bucket of them who regard any criticism of Islam as some piece of colonialism, and they deserve to ge called out. To argue though that some ding bat students union is creating a taboo when major newspapers tout the other view is just a nonsense.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, I was reading about the problem of women being assaulted at gigs. The problem doesn't lie solely within one religion or culture.

No it doesn't but there is a bit nos quoque here. That this is not a perfect society for women and that some will be assaulted on a Saturday night in Birmingham, does not mean that what happened in Cologne can just be dealt with as if by the comment it happens all the time. There was obviously a specific problem and we need to look how to deal with that. That doesn't stop us having to deal with women being treated badly elsewhere.

[Rhiannon]

I think the women attacked had a pretty good idea of the people who attacked them.

But of course it's politically incorrect to point the finger and identify them.

The women can't possibly know the ethnic group their attackers belong too, they must be wrong and it must be a mixture of ethnic groups.
Seriously?

 

Apparently " victim blaming" is only allowed if the ethnic group of the attackers is a sensitive one.

All reports of rape tend to be anecdotal, because you don't normally have an audience.

The women victims can't be dismissed so easily.

Who is dismissing the victims?

[Nearly Sane]

I think the women attacked had a pretty good idea of the people who attacked them.

But of course it's politically incorrect to point the finger and identify them.

The women can't possibly know the ethnic group their attackers belong too, they must be wrong and it must be a mixture of ethnic groups.
Seriously?

 

Apparently " victim blaming" is only allowed if the ethnic group of the attackers is a sensitive one.

All reports of rape tend to be anecdotal, because you don't normally have an audience.

The women victims can't be dismissed so easily.

Who on here has suggested the above?

[Rhiannon]

No it doesn't but there is a bit nos quoque here. That this is not a perfect society for women and that some will be assaulted on a Saturday night in Birmingham, does not mean that what happened in Cologne can just be dealt with as if by the comment it happens all the time. There was obviously a specific problem and we need to look how to deal with that. That doesn't stop us having to deal with women being treated badly elsewhere.

The solutions may be different and responses framed according to each individual situation. But happens all the time? Yes it does. I grew up with it and it's really no different for my daughters' generation.

[Nearly Sane]

The solutions may be different and responses framed according to each individual situation. But happens all the time? Yes it does. I grew up with it and it's really no different for my daughters' generation.

Sex harassment indeed happens all the time, but that would mean that because murders happen all the time we shouldn't look on terrorism as anything different. 

[Rhiannon]

Sex harassment indeed happens all the time, but that would mean that because murders happen all the time we shouldn't look on terrorism as anything different.

Why? Terrorism and murder are different things. Harassment and rape are harassment and rape.

As I said before clearly there needs to be a specific response to the problems experienced in Cologne. But I'd like to see the same level of outrage and a need to 'do something' about the harassment that women face all the time when socialising.

[Nearly Sane]

Why? Terrorism and murder are different things. Harassment and rape are harassment and rape.

As I said before clearly there needs to be a specific response to the problems experienced in Cologne. But I'd like to see the same level of outrage and a need to 'do something' about the harassment that women face all the time when socialising.

If people are killed in terrorism, seems like murder to me.

As for the outrage thing, that's another tu quoque and one touted from the other side as well.

[Rhiannon]

If people are killed in terrorism, seems like murder to me.

As for the outrage thing, that's another tu quoque and one touted from the other side as well.

Yes and no. I agree that terrorists are murders. But the motives are different as is the journey to get to committing terrorist atrocities. Treating them the same isn't going to work. I'm not sure how we prevent individuals from murdering; there's a discussion to be had on preventing terrorism though.

Well, I'm seeing plenty of outrage on this thread. They're raping our women, remember.