Author Topic: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment  (Read 3026 times)

Nearly Sane

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Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« on: January 08, 2016, 11:47:26 AM »
It was all so much easier when he was Min for Culture and one could spoonerise


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/08/jeremy-hunt-lambasted-for-trying-to-politicise-paris-attacks


Gonnagle

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 12:12:15 PM »
Dear Sane,

Yes, I am quite amused by the other thread regarding Labours division, seems to me that Corbyn just needs to sit back and watch the tories go from one gaff to the other.

I was reading in the Huffington Post about Mhairi Black having a pop at the tories when only five of them turned up for a debate regarding women's pensions, I have sneaking feeling that the tories might becoming complacent regarding Corbyn and the SNP.

They don't care about women's pensions, they don't care about the female vote.

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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2016, 12:18:45 PM »
Yes, I am quite amused by the other thread regarding Labours division, seems to me that Corbyn just needs to sit back and watch the tories go from one gaff to the other.
This is, of course, one of the most frustrating things about Corbyn - he is unable to move the narrative beyond inward looking, internal Labour party trouble and toward the Tories.

Yesterday was a good example - George Osborne was forced to admit that everything isn't rosy in the economic garden and that despite all the pain he has imposed the economy is weak and we can expect big trouble.

The opposition, and in particular the shadow chancellor, should have been all over this - effectively an admission that his plan hasn't worked. Yet where was the shadow chancellor - in radio and tv studios defending his leader's decision to sack some of his colleagues.

wigginhall

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2016, 12:31:13 PM »
And the Blairites and Brownites seem to spend more time attacking Corbyn than they do the Tories.   
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 03:16:50 PM »
And the Blairites and Brownites seem to spend more time attacking Corbyn than they do the Tories.
And the Corbynites spend most of their time attacking the Blarites and Brownites.

The fundamental problem is that the key group that the leader of the Labour party must lead is his MPs. If he cannot lead them he is holed below the waterline. And without doubt Corbyn cannot lead his MPs, for a variety of reasons. Firstly of course, most of them disagree with him on policy. Secondly he has no credibility when asking for party unity and discipline as he rebelled more times than you can mention. Finally he is chronically inexperienced (and I think lacking the basic attributes) as a leader. From what I can see he has never actually lead anything - has never been a minister or on the shadow front bench, never run a department, never chaired an influential select committee etc etc.

As far as I can see the summit of his leadership experience to date (prior to being Labour leader) is being chair of the  All-Party Parliamentary Group on the Chagos Islands!?! Does anyone even know where the Chagos Islands are?

I cannot think of anyone else attaining such high office with such little leadership experience. And for this person to be so inexperienced at the age of 66 (rather than 36) speaks volumes for both his desire to lead and his abilities so to do.

Hope

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 03:29:05 PM »
Yesterday was a good example - George Osborne was forced to admit that everything isn't rosy in the economic garden and that despite all the pain he has imposed the economy is weak and we can expect big trouble.
A tad simplistic PD.  I find the fact that Labour supporters, who were so angry when Labour was blamed for the 2008 crisis - arguing that it was far more to do with global economic issues - are now ignoring the current global situation when criticising Osbourne and co.

Quote
The opposition, and in particular the shadow chancellor, should have been all over this - effectively an admission that his plan hasn't worked. Yet where was the shadow chancellor - in radio and tv studios defending his leader's decision to sack some of his colleagues.
Less admitting that his plan hadn't worked, and more admitting that global events have a greater impact on national economies than he was willing to admit prior to the 2010 election.
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Outrider

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 04:16:02 PM »
Less admitting that his plan hadn't worked, and more admitting that global events have a greater impact on national economies than he was willing to admit prior to the 2010 election.

No, his plan hasn't worked. Other countries employing similar plans across Europe find themselves in the same boat. The US, which ironically took a more 'left-wing' investment and public spending approach to the economic situation has performed significantly better. China, which has adopted a public investment programme (whilst initially suffering much less from the global financial situation initially) has also flourished.

Austerity has comprehensively and consistently failed, not just in the UK.

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wigginhall

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 04:34:01 PM »
Austerity has a great drawback, that it chokes the economy.  I mean, it shrinks the tax take, and shrinks spending and thus the economy.  Thus Osborne is borrowing huge amounts, but smoke and mirrors seem to have replaced forensic political analysis today, so he is getting away with it. 
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Hope

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 05:35:49 PM »
Austerity has a great drawback, that it chokes the economy.  I mean, it shrinks the tax take, and shrinks spending and thus the economy.  Thus Osborne is borrowing huge amounts, but smoke and mirrors seem to have replaced forensic political analysis today, so he is getting away with it.
I agree, but then there are places and examples where the opposite has been no less disastrous.  If one is to believe Labour supporters here in Wales, much of what the Labour Party did in its first 10 years in power - namely throwing money at issues - has been a waste of time.  The country is precious little better off now than it was in 1995.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 01:57:07 PM »
Government to make student nurses pay to do their training.......which involves working for the NHS.

As if anybody needs anymore proof that there is a desire abroad in this country to do away with the NHS.

Hope

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 04:18:09 PM »
Government to make student nurses pay to do their training.......which involves working for the NHS.

As if anybody needs anymore proof that there is a desire abroad in this country to do away with the NHS.
Yet many student teachers and medics have to pay to do their training - and education is no less important than healthcare.  Why is nursing any different to any other profession?
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2016, 06:30:56 PM »
Yet many student teachers and medics have to pay to do their training - and education is no less important than healthcare.  Why is nursing any different to any other profession?
Because they are actually contributing to what the NHS does while training.

Perhaps student teachers and medics shouldn't have to pay.

Hope

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2016, 09:48:32 PM »
Because they are actually contributing to what the NHS does while training.
In the same way that student teachers and student medics do in their respective areas of training.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2016, 07:29:37 PM »
I see according to Boris Johnson, my friend supporting the junior doctors, who is a consultant haemotologist, member of the Tory party, J.P. and colonel in the T.A. having served in Iraq and Afghanistan is a Communist Corbynista.


Nearly Sane

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2016, 09:37:38 AM »
The below is a post from the excellent Dr Rant Facebook page.


Dear Jeremy. You seem to have little to say about the Junior Doctor industrial action, other than your usual bullshit. I noticed an extra faeculent fact added today : apparently, you are "20% more likely to die from a stroke if you are admitted at the weekend". May I draw your attention to this excellent analysis by Dave Curtis, which shows that you are either lying through your teeth, or simply don't know what you are talking about. Posted with permission from the author :
"Here is the soundbite which Hunt has been repeating ad nauseam: "And at the moment we have an NHS where if you have a stroke at the weekends, you're 20% more likely to die. That can't be acceptable."
Sounds quite impressive? I tweeted him to ask for evidence and got no reply so I decided to look for my own. It wasn't hard to find. I'll deal with the best and most recent example. The headline finding from this paper is that patients admitted at weekends with a stroke diagnosis have an increased 7-day mortality of 19%, apparently just as Hunt claims:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4487251/
The 7-day mortality for week-end admissions is 12.9% and for week-day admissions is 11.1% and if you factor in comorbidities etc. this gives you an adjusted mortality odds ratio of 1.19. Just as Hunt says.
But let's look more closely. At some numbers buried in the text of the paper and not even given a p value, even though they are probably the most statistically significant thing in the paper: "The overall admission rate for stroke was higher on normal week days (111 per 100 000 population; 95% CI = 110–113) than on weekends (88; 86–90) and public holidays (95; 88–102)."
So the admission rate for stroke is substantially lower at week-ends. 88 versus 111 per 100,000. See those confidence intervals? They imply that the standard error of the mean is around 1. Which means that a comparison of the two means would give a t statistic of around 13, which would give a p value so tiny that most statistics software would not even be able to calculate it.
Given that there is no earthly reason for the incidence of stroke to fluctuate wildly by the day of the week, what is obviously happening is that fewer patients with stroke are getting admitted at week-ends and that the ones who are admitted then are more severe, and hence have a higher mortality.
In fact, we can go further and quantify things. We'll make a couple of assumptions. One is that the incidence of severe stroke, i.e. one with a chance of killing you, is constant for each day of the week. Unlike, say, RTAs, alcohol poisoning or whatever. The second assumption is that somebody with a severe stroke is going to present and get admitted the same day. Strokes happen suddenly, unlike say pneumonia, appendicitis, whatever.
If we accept this, then the day of admission is the same as the day the patient has their stroke.At week-ends, 88 per 100, 000 people have a stroke and get admitted to hospital, of whom 12.9% die within 7 days, which is 11.4 people. On weekdays, it's 111 per 100,000 people having a stroke and coming in, of whom 11.1% die within 7 days, which is 12.3. So out of 100,000 people, every week-end day 11.4 get a stroke which will kill them in 7 days compared with 12.3 for every week-day.
So Hunt is lying. If you have a stroke at the week-end you're not 20% more likely to die. In fact, according to the best evidence, you're less likely to die. Out of people admitted to hospital more die, but that can only reflect their increased severity.
The main point about all this is not just that he is misleading people on this particular issue. It is that this is the best he can come up with. The DoH is packed with people smarter than us whose only job is to find stuff to support the minister. If this is the best they can come up with it doesn't reflect their incompetence. It means that there really is no evidence at all for a "week-end effect". It means there is no problem that needs fixing. It means that Hunt is deliberately picking a fight with the medical profession over a complete non-issue, presumably to further his own political ends."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Jeremy Hunt - a suitable case for treatment
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2016, 03:36:09 PM »