Isaiah 52:13-53: whatever..

[Owlswing]

So what? It is quite possible the gospel writers created the life of Jesus to fit in with those 'prophecies'. He was killed three years after he started threading the boards, and there is no evidence he resurrected. Most of the Jews, including his family, didn't recognise him as a messiah!

Just a very naughty boy!

[Sassy]

Christians don't understand Issy 53 - and all of us non-christians really love winding you up about your lack of knowledge about what it actually means.

Which is why we post on these such forums and then piss ourselves laughing about your "suffering servant" mistranslation/understanding.. even when we point it out - you still don't understand. It's a HUGE joke to us who actually understand who the servant is in Isaiah 53...

Let's test that so called lack of knowledge...

Tell us what the believers know in the Spirit and the Jews knew in the Spirit about the Messiah?
Also tell us where in the OT the Jews are told about the Messiah.
Then tell us why the Samaritan woman at the well said:- King James Bible
The woman saith unto him," I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things."

Maybe, just maybe you are the one chasing his own tail in the circle of things relating to truth,Christ, the word and God.

"My words are Spirit and they are life" it is really is far out of your grasp. What is more you know why it is far out of your grasp yet right in front of you. Nothing else can fill that emptiness that disappointment leaves..

[Owlswing]

Let's test that so called lack of knowledge...


Then tell us why the Samaritan woman at the well said:- King James Bible
The woman saith unto him," I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things."

Why?

Simple because some translator in 16whatever decided that that was what the Latin meant - the latin having been derived from Greek, the Greek from Hebrew!

The whole Book of Bollocks is suspect, if on no other basis, on the number of times the damn thing has been (mis)translated or edited - See Exodus 22:18

[Hope]

So what? It is quite possible the gospel writers created the life of Jesus to fit in with those 'prophecies'. He was killed three years after he started threading the boards, and there is no evidence he resurrected. Most of the Jews, including his family, didn't recognise him as a messiah!

Floo, we don't know exactly what his family consisted of - other than Joseph, Mary and James.  It's telling that at least those 3 people believed that he was the Messiah - and not just any old messiah.  It's also worth noting that Church history suggests that James wasn't that much of a fan of his brother initially, but we also know that he ended up leading the Church in Jerusalem.

As for your argumentum ad populum, ...

[Hope]

Why?

Simple because some translator in 16whatever decided that that was what the Latin meant - the latin having been derived from Greek, the Greek from Hebrew!

The whole Book of Bollocks is suspect, if on no other basis, on the number of times the damn thing has been (mis)translated or edited - See Exodus 22:18

Why 16whatever, Matt?  Are you suggesting that there were no Biblical materials in English in existence before then?  PS, I'll give you a couple of clues - the Venerable Bede and Aldhelm

[floo]

Floo, we don't know exactly what his family consisted of - other than Joseph, Mary and James.  It's telling that at least those 3 people believed that he was the Messiah - and not just any old messiah.  It's also worth noting that Church history suggests that James wasn't that much of a fan of his brother initially, but we also know that he ended up leading the Church in Jerusalem.

As for your argumentum ad populum, ...

Well if the guy was the messiah he is a busted flush and DEAD!

[Hope]

Well if the guy was the messiah he is a busted flush and DEAD!

And you have evidence for that assertion?  In case you have forgotten, people have been making that argument for nigh-on 2000 years but none have ever managed to produce a body. In view of the serious issues that the Jewish religious leadership had with him and his teaching one would expect that they would have ensured that the body couldn't be spirited away.

[Gordon]

And you have evidence for that assertion?  In case you have forgotten, people have been making that argument for nigh-on 2000 years but none have ever managed to produce a body. In view of the serious issues that the Jewish religious leadership had with him and his teaching one would expect that they would have ensured that the body couldn't be spirited away.

Not this nonsense again - at that the point of Jesus being executed the 'authorities', as you've referred to them before, would have no need to produce the body of a routine troublemaker.

[Owlswing]

Why 16whatever, Matt?  Are you suggesting that there were no Biblical materials in English in existence before then?  PS, I'll give you a couple of clues - the Venerable Bede and Aldhelm

Because, you patronising plonker, Sassy quoted the KJV! Simple!

[floo]

And you have evidence for that assertion?  In case you have forgotten, people have been making that argument for nigh-on 2000 years but none have ever managed to produce a body. In view of the serious issues that the Jewish religious leadership had with him and his teaching one would expect that they would have ensured that the body couldn't be spirited away.

There is NO evidence he is alive. As people do not come back if they are truly dead, it is not credible to believe Jesus is still alive.

[Sassy]

Why?

Simple because some translator in 16whatever decided that that was what the Latin meant - the latin having been derived from Greek, the Greek from Hebrew!

The whole Book of Bollocks is suspect, if on no other basis, on the number of times the damn thing has been (mis)translated or edited - See Exodus 22:18

Pity you know nothing about the real history of the bible.. Boo Hoo to you,...

[floo]

Pity you know nothing about the real history of the bible.. Boo Hoo to you,...

And you do?

[Sassy]

And you do?

Of, course I do. The bible is God given to man by the power of the Holy Spirit in those whom God chose.

I am surprised it wasn't rammed down your throat... but perhaps they never read the bible or knew the LORD to be able to reveal the truth...

[Maeght]

There is NO evidence he is alive. As people do not come back if they are truly dead, it is not credible to believe Jesus is still alive.

Although I don't believe in God. Jesus etc I've never understood this argument. Surely it's the point that normal people don't come back to life, but Jesus wasn't an ordinary person so could have. All this argument that miracles etc aren't credible because they don't normally happen seems to me to be mssing the point.

[Shaker]

Although I don't believe in God. Jesus etc I've never understood this argument. Surely it's the point that normal people don't come back to life, but Jesus wasn't an ordinary person so could have.

But that's just special pleading - the assertion, on zero evidence, that Jesus is the exception to the fate which has befallen every single last living thing in the entire history of the world since for ever. This is precisely and exactly the sort of special pleading you'd expect of anyone trying to make Jesus a special case, but that's merely assertion.

[floo]

Of, course I do. The bible is God given to man by the power of the Holy Spirit in those whom God chose.

I am surprised it wasn't rammed down your throat... but perhaps they never read the bible or knew the LORD to be able to reveal the truth...

You cannot prove the Bible has anything to do with any deity.

As I have said before I know that book too well having read it so many times.

As I have also said before many times, if Jesus couldn't come through for me when I desperately needed him as a child, either he doesn't give a damn, or is long dead. Of course the latter is the most likely by far.

[Hope]

But that's just special pleading - the assertion, on zero evidence, that Jesus is the exception to the fate which has befallen every single last living thing in the entire history of the world since for ever.

And you are certain that there is 'zero evidence', Shakes? 

The problem with your argument is that you have to ignore documentary evidence that exists to the fact of the resurrection because you, nor anyone else, has ever been able to disprove the evidence.  That's special pleading, if anything is.

[Hope]

You cannot prove the Bible has anything to do with any deity.

Evidence required

[Shaker]

And you are certain that there is 'zero evidence', Shakes? 

The problem with your argument is that you have to ignore documentary evidence that exists to the fact of the resurrection

Belief in, not fact of. Two different things. Belief in.

because you, nor anyone else, has ever been able to disprove the evidence.  That's special pleading, if anything is.

No - you already know precisely and exactly what that is. Or at least, any normal person would do by now.

Your idea of "documentary evidence" seems to consist of nothing more than "is written down in a book somewhere." In which case there's documentary evidence that Cronus ate his first six children and the seventh, Zeus, only escaped because Rhea gave Cronus a stone wrapped in swaddling clothes which he swallowed in place of the baby Zeus. You don't accept this mythology because you happen to favour another mythology for emotional reasons, that's all.

[Rhiannon]

It would be nice to see Christians be honest here about their beliefs being in spite of the evidence and not because of it.

[Owlswing]

Pity you know nothing about the real history of the bible.. Boo Hoo to you,...

I know as much as you! I WAS brought up Christian for 15 years.

And my understanding of its contents are not clouded by a blind attachment to the myths contained in it.

[floo]

Evidence required

You have to provide the evidence to substantiate the existence of the Biblical deity, which is as credible as fairies at the bottom of my garden!

[Owlswing]

You have to provide the evidence to substantiate the existence of the Biblical deity, which is as credible as fairies at the bottom of my garden!

Leave the fairies alone! The Christians are hassling them quite enough what with rejecting same-sex marriages etc. They are not damaging the garden are they?

[Hope]

You have to provide the evidence to substantiate the existence of the Biblical deity, which is as credible as fairies at the bottom of my garden!

I'm afraid your opinion isn't evidence, Floo.

[floo]

I'm afraid your opinion isn't evidence, Floo.

I never said my opinion was evidence, but neither is yours!