Author Topic: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops  (Read 76453 times)

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #200 on: January 16, 2016, 01:29:51 AM »
Matty,
I still haven't forgotten your bigoted rant against the immigrant make up of your community.

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #201 on: January 16, 2016, 02:17:47 AM »
For as long as there is an established church anywhere in the UK this is newsworthy.

There are a lot of Anglicans who will be disappointed by this. I know both clergy and laity who have left the church because of its homophobia. They are either going to lose many more members or there will be a breakaway within the CofE.


Where in Christianity or any religion does it teach that being homosexual is part of faith?
Where does paganism uphold and teach that you must be homosexual or even bi-sexual to be a pagan.
Sexuality is not a religious issue. However being a Christian like any other belief is about a set of tenets which central to the core beliefs.

If Christianity states that Homosexuality is WRONG... how can you make it right?
Does that mean everyone who is heterosexual are homophobic because they do not want or believe sex with another person of the same sex is right for them or wanted by them?

The same applies to Christians. It is not a conscious choice they make. Christianity is about Christ and using your bodies to Gods glory.  You cannot be a true Christian born of Spirit and Truth and live a life which does not comply with those beliefs.
But you can be a Christian and a heterosexual and know that something not right for you is not something which makes us behave badly towards those who do.

Too long people have used the homophobia card to make something offensive which isn't.

You sometimes have to accept the choices you make can exclude you from other ways you would have chose in in life.

Being heterosexual, does not mean you are homophobic, not should it be forced onto heterosexuals that their sexual preference is wrong. No more than it is right to be one or the other alone.

What you cannot do is keep forcing onto others what they do not believe is right for them.

We all live together in this world. The truth is that you cannot be homosexual and actually love God if taking part in fornication.
Fornication which includes sexual acts between men and women not married to each other. So sexual sin is not just about sexuality. It is about sexual acts outside the union as allowed by the faiths.

So sin and fornication is about all sexualities and if the faith says it is not allowed. How can anyone heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual claim they are a true believer.

I abstain because of my beliefs... Not perfect by any means but sometimes we can't fight what our hearts tell us.
I personally, have never slept around and never wanted to. I believe sex is special and our bodies whatever we think of them are not for using by anyone.

We all have to fess up. Fess-up to the fact we cannot call ourselves part of something we refuse to follow.

So someone explain to me how someone who does not follow the rules is really part of that organisation.
Can a man be a homosexual and call himself one, if he only sleeps with women?
Can a man call himself an heterosexual if he sleeps with both men and women?
Can anyone call themselves a Christian if they do not fit in.... It might be the 12th hour when we realise something would be wrong to do. But our consciences sometimes makes us realise that we have to be sincere and we have to faithful to our beliefs.
Which means putting God ahead of our own wants and needs.

I am sick of the fact people have become blind sided to reality.




We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #202 on: January 16, 2016, 06:47:49 AM »

I am sick of the fact people have become blind sided to reality.

And I am sick of the fact that backward thinking minds still take as gospel the stupid stuff that was  invented by primitive tribes who knew no better.

Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #203 on: January 16, 2016, 07:10:25 AM »
And I am sick of the fact that backward thinking minds still take as gospel the stupid stuff that was  invented by primitive tribes who knew no better.

In your opinion.


Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #204 on: January 16, 2016, 07:39:36 AM »
We are only talking about one small aspect of the church, allowing homosexuals to become bishops.

Lots of people, including my ordinated female friend don't think women should be bishops.

She says the role is better suited to men.

It might well be that many people are excluded from being bishops, perhaps because of divorce or perhaps they have had an affair. Or maybe they are just controversial in some way.

Like it or not certain things fall outside the core principals of the church.  Family and family values  plays an important role.

In most cases many people in church  overlook things or are accepting of things, that might exclude someone from being a bishop.

So what the laity will accept in some situations,  it won't in others.

The thing about the bishop though ( more so than any other role ) is that he administers and lays on hands and ministers to those ministering to the laity.

As this puts it.

Quote

. He is responsible for teaching, governing, and sanctifying the faithful of his diocese, sharing these duties with the priests and deacons who serve under him.



Now, you can't be a bishop if the way you live runs contrary to whatever they decide the core principals of the church are.

So if you have an affair you lose your job ( and that applies to vicars too)

The people at the top when they make a decision think they are responsible for the consequences in the laity below.

I don't think it is that they are homophobic, but more that the role the bishop plays in the church, it's important that he represents the core beliefs of the church and is not controversial in any way.

He is in effect passing on the Holy Spirit to those below him, that's why he lays his hands on the person when ordinating them.

It's also the reason Women find it hard to become bishops.

It's because those below them don't think they have the authority to do so.

That's the thing about bishops and their role.

It doesn't just effect the bishop, if effects the whole church, because when you first become a Christian,  the bishop comes. So it even effects a new Christian.

If people, for whatever reason, don't believe the authority of the bishop, to do what he does then the whole church becomes diluted and somewhat less.

It doesn't matter if the reason is because they are a woman, has had a past affair and is divorced, or is a practicing homosexual or is in some other way, controversial.

That's how I see it.

They felt they weren't acting in the best interests of the rest of the church by taking a step that the congregations weren't ready for, and wasn't very clearly biblical.

Homosexuality is controversial, at least where the bible is concerned. Some say it was referring to certain aspects of something that happened and that the bible isn't referring to homosexuality generally, others argue differently.

They needed to feel they could argue a case for it.

Because they would have had to argue their case for it or the African churches would have broken away ( and they are growing ATM)

It's the congregations that pay their wages.

It's the congregations that can change things.

But it's often the most religious and those that are against it, that put the most in the coffers.

Some at the church I went to,  put in 10% of their earnings.

It's people like that,  that get involved have the most say in church policy.

The one I went to was Methodist / c of e.

It came up in conversation once with the vicar.

The Methodist minister was ok with the idea of gay priests as long as they weren't practicing.

I think it's the role of the bishop that is causing an issue.








« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 08:12:37 AM by Rose »

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #205 on: January 16, 2016, 07:53:22 AM »
And I am sick of the fact that backward thinking minds still take as gospel the stupid stuff that was  invented by primitive tribes who knew no better.
My take on that is: They didn't have the number of diversionary toys and games, had more time for reflection, less noise and were less neotenised. What we need to remember is that probably there was as now a high level of actual agnosticism.

Oh and no forums on which to show off.

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #206 on: January 16, 2016, 08:27:02 AM »
In your opinion.

Quite! Which is better than following the opinion of somebody else's mind like sheep.

We  have the ability to take the good advice and discard the nonsense.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 08:29:02 AM by Leonard James »

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #207 on: January 16, 2016, 08:34:05 AM »
Quite! Which is better than following the opinion of somebody else's mind like sheep.

We  have the ability to take the good advice and discard the nonsense.
I find your human/subhuman divide rather troubling Len.

Humph Warden Bennett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5013
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #208 on: January 16, 2016, 08:43:41 AM »
Too little too late.

Who cares?

If their "church" collapses then many of their members will be a position to hear the true message more clearly than before.


Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #209 on: January 16, 2016, 08:53:05 AM »
I find your human/subhuman divide rather troubling Len.
You have a curious and ineradicable "gift" for seeing what isn't there.

Len at no point used the term "subhuman." Only you did so.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #210 on: January 16, 2016, 08:53:45 AM »
If their "church" collapses then many of their members will be a position to hear the true message more clearly than before.
Why the "scare" "quotes"?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Humph Warden Bennett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5013
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #211 on: January 16, 2016, 09:16:44 AM »
Why the "scare" "quotes"?

Because the Orthodox Church does not recognize Anglicanism as a true church.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #212 on: January 16, 2016, 09:32:28 AM »
Because the Orthodox Church does not recognize Anglicanism as a true church.
Oh, the same old shite, then - we're the one true church, you're not. No, we are. No you're not, we are. I'm the one true church and so is my wife.

The usual balls.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 09:41:17 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Humph Warden Bennett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5013
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #213 on: January 16, 2016, 10:00:55 AM »
Oh, the same old shite, then - we're the one true church, you're not. No, we are. No you're not, we are. I'm the one true church and so is my wife.

The usual balls.

No, because we are right  :D

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #214 on: January 16, 2016, 10:02:41 AM »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7928
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #215 on: January 16, 2016, 10:49:39 AM »
Who cares?

If their "church" collapses then many of their members will be a position to hear the true message more clearly than before.

True.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #216 on: January 16, 2016, 11:15:33 AM »
Dear Humph,

Nah! you are wrong but you are not alone, CoE, CoS, RC, their Churchianity is destroying Christianity, but it is not all doom and gloom, honest Christians ( not real Christians, not true Christians, whatever they are ) are seeing through the nonsense of established Churches and the really good part is that the honest Christian are members of these established Churches, change from within.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/the.name.of.god.is.mercy.pope.francis.takes.on.critics.in.new.book/76228.htm

A small step, baby step but a step in the right direction.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7928
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #217 on: January 16, 2016, 11:18:17 AM »
Francis is a horrible modernist. He is part of the problem, a prime example of the West's departure from the faith of the Apostles.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #218 on: January 16, 2016, 11:26:45 AM »
Dear ad o,

Who loves ya baby, well I do old son but did you read the link, a return to the Gospels, that is the four Gospels, the life and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Christ trumps your Apostles.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7928
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #219 on: January 16, 2016, 12:12:33 PM »
Dear ad o,

Who loves ya baby, well I do old son but did you read the link, a return to the Gospels, that is the four Gospels, the life and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Christ trumps your Apostles.

Gonnagle.

The faith of the Apostles comes straight from Christ. Keep your false dichotomies if you wish. Francis isn't about mercy but fake humbleness and validation of sin.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

floo

  • Guest
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #220 on: January 16, 2016, 12:23:51 PM »
The faith of the Apostles comes straight from Christ. Keep your false dichotomies if you wish. Francis isn't about mercy but fake humbleness and validation of sin.

In your opinion!

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #221 on: January 16, 2016, 12:57:11 PM »
Dear ad o,

Fair enough old son, agree to disagree but did you read this bit

Quote
He describes them as "men who live attached to the letter of the law but who neglect love; men who only know how to close doors and draw boundaries".

Neglect Love, close the doors, draw boundaries, one day you might have to answer to a higher power than your little Church.

Matthew 25:37-40

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #222 on: January 16, 2016, 01:14:53 PM »
The faith of the Apostles comes straight from Christ. Keep your false dichotomies if you wish. Francis isn't about mercy but fake humbleness and validation of sin.

Honestly Ad_O, I have never before seen a man at the bottom of such a deep hole with verical siders to it who is still digging!

For an intelligent man you are shoiwing a surprising lack of intelligence, either that or you are totally blind to what people are posting here.

It should be abundantly clear after over 200 posts that you are in a minority of one in this matter, not even Christians agree with you!

Open your eyes, the eyes that, supposedly, your god gave you, use the brain that your god, supposedly, gave you and realise that you are making yourself look a total and complete homophobic and religious bigot.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7928
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #223 on: January 16, 2016, 01:25:44 PM »
I don't need your approval or that of an apostate world. As the Apostle St. Peter said, we should obey God before men.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32495
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Anglicans exclude the US Episcopalians over gay bishops
« Reply #224 on: January 16, 2016, 01:28:51 PM »
In your opinion.

So you don't think Leonard's opinion about his own feelings is necessarily correct?
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply