Incest

[Brownie]

Neuro-linguistic Programming, floo

[Spud]

One for the creationists. Why is it that incest was apparently rife in the book of Genesis and looked upon favourably by the deity, but subsequently became a BIG NO NO for very good reasons?

If you are talking mainly about Adam and Eve's children intermarrying, Matthew Henry says that sibling intermarriage is not so contrary to nature as intermarriage between fathers/mothers/Aunts/Uncles because "Adam’s sons must of necessity have married their own sisters". But marriage between brothers and sisters had to be made unlawful because they "cannot intermarry without defeating one of the intentions of marriage, which is the enlargement of friendship and interest. If every man married his own sister (as they would be apt to do from generation to generation if it were lawful), each family would be a world to itself, and it would be forgotten that we are members one of another."
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/leviticus/18.htm

[floo]

If you are talking mainly about Adam and Eve's children intermarrying, Matthew Henry says that sibling intermarriage is not so contrary to nature as intermarriage between fathers/mothers/Aunts/Uncles because "Adam’s sons must of necessity have married their own sisters". But marriage between brothers and sisters had to be made unlawful because they "cannot intermarry without defeating one of the intentions of marriage, which is the enlargement of friendship and interest. If every man married his own sister (as they would be apt to do from generation to generation if it were lawful), each family would be a world to itself, and it would be forgotten that we are members one of another."
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/leviticus/18.htm

If it is wrong now, it should have been wrong then. The deity should have created more people, but of course the Biblical deity is a psychopathic nutter!

[Spud]

If it is wrong now, it should have been wrong then. The deity should have created more people, but of course the Biblical deity is a psychopathic nutter!

Isn't there something about knowing we all come from one set of parents that seems to unite people of different ethnicity, and make us treat each other as equals?

[Shaker]

Isn't there something about knowing we all come from one set of parents that seems to unite people of different ethnicity, and make us treat each other as equals?

That would be nice.

Doesn't seem to pan out that way, however.

[Gordon]

Isn't there something about knowing we all come from one set of parents that seems to unite people of different ethnicity, and make us treat each other as equals?

There isn't, we didn't and history to date shows that we don't.

[Brownie]

Would be good if it worked but coming from one family has never stopped different branches of the family falling out.

[floo]

Isn't there something about knowing we all come from one set of parents that seems to unite people of different ethnicity, and make us treat each other as equals?

Well we didn't come from one set of parents, and even if we did it doesn't mean everyone would get on!

[OH MY WORLD!]

The deity should have done this or that blah, blah, blah.  "...the Biblical deity is a psychopathic nutter"
Well your daughters didn't fall for your nasty talk about God, why should we?

[Leonard James]

The deity should have done this or that blah, blah, blah.  "...the Biblical deity is a psychopathic nutter"
Well your daughters didn't fall for your nasty talk about God, why should we?

The answer is very simple. Some people need to believe in "God", and wouldn't feel fulfilled and happy with life if they didn't ... that's all.

[floo]

The answer is very simple. Some people need to believe in "God", and wouldn't feel fulfilled and happy with life if they didn't ... that's all.

And some Christians, like my own kids, are moderate in their beliefs, aren't Biblical literalists, and don't force feed their take on faith down the throats of unbelievers.

[Khatru]

Weren't Abraham and Sarah in an incestuous marriage?

Wasn't this marriage approved and blessed by God?

[OH MY WORLD!]

Who is force feeding? Floo thinks force feeding is a Christian who dares to state what they believe. There is a little old man with a long beard that sits on top of a post box at one entrance to the International Market Place in Waikiki. All he does is read aloud from his Bible as people walk past. I would miss his "force feeding" if he's not there on my next visit.

[Owlswing]

Who is force feeding? Floo thinks force feeding is a Christian who dares to state what they believe. There is a little old man with a long beard that sits on top of a post box at one entrance to the International Market Place in Waikiki. All he does is read aloud from his Bible as people walk past. I would miss his "force feeding" if he's not there on my next visit.

That is perfectly OK; because you welcome it.

But what about those who do not?

Why are they forced to go past this man spouting his beliefs to the world just so that they can get into the market?

Why not leave them to investigate for themselves if they wish to find out what the bible contains? And not to do so if they do not?

[Brownie]

Weren't Abraham and Sarah in an incestuous marriage?

Wasn't this marriage approved and blessed by God?

Sarah and Abraham had the same father so, yes, they were half-siblings, he being the elder by about ten years.

[Spud]

If it is wrong now, it should have been wrong then. The deity should have created more people,

It is a difficult question floo. Reading C.S.Lewis Mere Christianity, he talks about how the sexual appetite is perverted as a result of the fall. He takes the fact that sex's function is for reproduction, and suggests that its excessive use in advertising is evidence for this perversion.

Also I was reading about how the four Mosaic laws identified by the apostolic Church in Acts 15 are taken from Leviticus 17 and 18. They were the only laws which applied not only to Israelites but also to foreigners living among them. The apostles applied this to Gentile converts to Christianity.

Incest comes in the category of fornicatiin in Acts 15. Applying what Lewis said, it makes sense that incestual relationships are one result of this perversion of the sexual appetite. But you couldn't say this about the children of Adam and Eve, who had no marriage partners to chose from except their own siblings. So it would not be perverse for them to be sexually attracted to and to marry each other.

Just a thought.

[floo]

'Perverted because of the fall'! The hoops some jump through to make excuses for the perverted, psychopathic deity of the Bible is incredible and very sad!

[Brownie]

That's just a theory amongst many other theories floo.  I like a great deal of C S Lewis's writings but don't go along 100% with all of them.

[Spud]

'Perverted because of the fall'! The hoops some jump through to make excuses for the perverted, psychopathic deity of the Bible is incredible and very sad!

Same old, different day, shift the blame onto God.

[floo]

Same old, different day, shift the blame onto God.

If the deity exists and created us, it created human nature, so of course ALL the blame rests squarely on its shoulders!

[Brownie]

Going back a few posts to where being 'force fed' religion was mentioned, who in this day and age is force fed religion?  Indeed we have to seek out any discussion on the subject by going onto religious message boards - I'd never thought about it like that before but I obviously do it (do I need a shrink?).  No-one pushes religion down anyone's throat, it is hardly ever mentioned by people we meet - at work, our neighbours, in shops or at 'bus stops.   There may be the occasional leaflet put through the letter box from a local church, giving information about what is happening there, or the JWs, and we can either read or ignore.

Seems to me that we are the ones who are obsessed with it.  Quite worrying - I'm going for a lie down.

[Owlswing]

Going back a few posts to where being 'force fed' religion was mentioned, who in this day and age is force fed religion?  Indeed we have to seek out any discussion on the subject by going onto religious message boards - I'd never thought about it like that before but I obviously do it (do I need a shrink?).  No-one pushes religion down anyone's throat, it is hardly ever mentioned by people we meet - at work, our neighbours, in shops or at 'bus stops.   There may be the occasional leaflet put through the letter box from a local church, giving information about what is happening there, or the JWs, and we can either read or ignore.

Seems to me that we are the ones who are obsessed with it.  Quite worrying - I'm going for a lie down.

In Hounslow High Street every other day there are a group, outside the Church, declaiming the word of god at the tops of their voices. Last week they also had a chilren's choir singing hymns. My pentacle ensures that I am targetted with the information that I am to be destined for Hell unless I change my wicked, sinful ways and give up my worship[ of Satan and accept Christ into my heart and my life.

I walk past trying to ignore this becasse I know that if I repond I am going to be facing a lecture and a string of quotations from the bible. I have had occasions when I have been followed along the street by the preacher and have had to duck into a shop, any shop, to escape.

I am not alone in this experience.

Force feeding? What am I supposed to do? Only shop on the days that they are not there? Find another route to the shops that I want? Take off the emblem of my faith? I remember the furore when a christian was asked to do the same! But that is different, isn't it? Christians have to be allowed to advertise their religion even if no-one else is!

[Brownie]

Ah well, I don't come across anything like that near where I live.  Years ago there used to be a group of people from an evangelical church talking and singing in a square near a shopping centre but I never took much notice, I don't know who did.  They were part of the local scene I suppose and just blended in. 

I imagined Hounslow to be a predominantly Sikh/Hindu area, that may be why Christian groups come out of the woodwork and try to make their presence felt.  They obviously have an effect on you!  I still maintain that there isn't a great deal of overt evangelisation by Christians in this country nowadays.

[Owlswing]

Ah well, I don't come across anything like that near where I live.  Years ago there used to be a group of people from an evangelical church talking and singing in a square near a shopping centre but I never took much notice, I don't know who did.  They were part of the local scene I suppose and just blended in. 

I imagined Hounslow to be a predominantly Sikh/Hindu area, that may be why Christian groups come out of the woodwork and try to make their presence felt.  They obviously have an effect on you!  I still maintain that there isn't a great deal of overt evangelisation by Christians in this country nowadays.

Do you classify JW as Christian?

I see them at virtually every station on the underground - albeit in silence, but holding out their pamphlets to vitually everyone who passes. This is, however, far less invasive than the preacher in Hounslow.

[Brownie]

JWs consider themselves to be Christian but they are certainly not mainstream and the majority of Christians do not consider JWs to be fellow Christians.  Nevertheless they knock on doors and put leaflets through the letter box.  In fairness to them, if you are not interested they go away quite politely.

Back to topic, the ancient Egyptians practised incest in that royal siblings married eachother.  I don't know when that changed.