The Afterlife - a possible scenario

[ad_orientem]

... says our resident anti-Semite and conspiracy loon who thinks only he has a handle on "the truth" while everybody else is duped by the media. Riiiight.

Zzzzz!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think it is a testimony to the overwhelming power of the illusion of self and personhood. We can see organic things live and they die and thats it, but we can't help believing that we are persons,

Torriden....What is being ''Illuded'' and what is doing the believing?

[Rhiannon]

Zzzzz!

He's right though, ad-o. Why should anyone take anything you say seriously now?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Torriden....What is being ''Illuded'' and what is doing the believing?

[ad_orientem]

He's right though, ad-o. Why should anyone take anything you say seriously now?

Because he's completely wrong.

[SusanDoris]

I understand the fear of loss. I don't understand the fear of one's own death, although I'd prefer it to be as painless as possible.

Anyone  of a nervous disposition maybe should not read this!


Because we can imagine being able to look at our dead bodies from some kind of an afterlife, we have to use correct knowledge, common sense, logic, etc, and, above all,  Science  not to think that is even remotely likely!

We can imagine finding ourselves still alive in a coffin; in fact it's just about impossible, I would say, to live your whole life without thinking about such things at one time or another. The closer I get to, inevitably, the end of my life, the more I revel in and value being a thinking, living, and cheerful person!

It is grey and gloomy here this morning, although not cold, and I hesitated a bout walking, but I walked around the town for 40 mins, including stopping to chat to a friend - lovely!   

[Rhiannon]

Susan, I think that they key word there is imagine.

We need to remind ourselves sometimes that our imaginings aren't real.

I'm glad you are having a lovely morning. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think it is a testimony to the overwhelming power of the illusion of self and personhood. We can see organic things live and they die and thats it, but we can't help believing that we are persons, something distinct from our physical bodies although nonetheless intimately associated with it; a 'person' is not something made of flesh and blood so how can it 'die'.

The biblical version is that we will need to be resurrected and that we will have bodies.
So you are not really saying anything radical about what the early Christians already knew...... that the complete human being is body, mind and spirit.

Many Christians nowadays I move are, in a materialist environment, agnostic about and even disbelieving of, Post Mortem existence but their belief in enjoying Christ and God Now calls into question the atheist and pagan mythos that Christians are just in it for the afterlife.

[Shaker]

Because he's completely wrong.

Yet again, just asserting something to be the case doesn't mean that it is.

[Rhiannon]

The biblical version is that we will need to be resurrected and that we will have bodies.
So you are not really saying anything radical about what the early Christians already knew...... that the complete human being is body, mind and spirit.

Many Christians nowadays I move are, in a materialist environment, agnostic about and even disbelieving of, Post Mortem existence but their belief in enjoying Christ and God Now calls into question the atheist and pagan mythos that Christians are just in it for the afterlife.

Vlad, this pagan doesn't believe most Christians are in it purely for the afterlife. I think for many - if not most - it is a need not to feel alone, to feel supported and to have the hope that if you ask the bad stuff won't be so awful. Perfectly understandable.

[ad_orientem]

Yet again, just asserting something to be the case doesn't mean that it is.

I throw the same accusation that back at you Shaker then. Being anti-Israel or believing Jews need to convert in order to be saved does not make one anti-semetic. Neither does believing there are anti-Christian forces at work or that western intelligence agencies are up to some very dodgy stuff make one a conspiracy nut. However much you claim otherwise doesn't make it true.

[Shaker]

I through the same accusation that back at you then.

In relation to what?

[ad_orientem]

In relation to what?

See my modified post above.

[Shaker]

Being anti-Israel or believing Jews need to convert in order to be saved does not make one anti-semetic.

No it doesn't, though it certainly makes one an arrogant and obnoxious arsehole complicit in the same sort of attitude which has caused so much misery, death and destruction in the world for the past two thousand years.

Believing that "Zionists/Zionism" are involved in some massively well-orchestrated but highly secret conspiracy of some sort to subvert the supposedly "Christian" values of the West makes one anti-Semitic, as does relying on swivel-eyed wingnut sources for supposedly "accurate" information. Naming a well-known Jewish banking family in connection with these conspiracies makes one an anti-Semite. And so forth.

Neither does believing there are anti-Christian forces at work or that western intelligence agencies are up to some very dodgy stuff make one a conspiracy nut.

The first part does. It pretty much makes one a chippy twat with a grudge and a persecution/martyr complex.

[ad_orientem]

I have given perfectly good sources, such as RT and Anonymous. By relying solely on mainstream western media, which is not beyond manipulation, and outright rejecting alternative sources you commit what you would call "confirmation bias".

http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-i-would-prefer-islamic-state-to-iran-in-syria/

[Shaker]

I have given perfectly good sources, such as RT and Anonymous.

A "perfectly good source" called Anonymous. Right you are

A "perfectly good source" called RT described by Wikipedia as: "... RT, originally Russia Today, is a Russian government-funded television network."* Oh, my sides, my poor sides.

By relying solely on mainstream western media, which is not beyond manipulation, and outright rejecting alternative sources you commit what you would call "confirmation bias".

http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-i-would-prefer-islamic-state-to-iran-in-syria/

Nope, because the alternative sources that you seem to rely on to feed you precisely whatever bigs up Mother Russia and Holy Mother Church (jeez, talk about a mother fixation ...) and whatever is derogatory to Jews and to the State of Israel invariably, sooner or later, show their hand as partial and interested parties with an agenda - which is of course, au fond, anti-Semitism.

Remember which language (and which country where this language is predominantly spoken) gave the world the word pogrom?

* It goes on to say: "RT has been called a propaganda outlet for the Russian government and its foreign policy by news reporters, including former RT reporters. It has also been accused of spreading disinformation. The United Kingdom media regulator Ofcom has repeatedly found RT to have breached rules on impartiality and of broadcasting "materially misleading" content."

[ad_orientem]

Of course it's going to say that because it exposes the hypocrisy and outright lies of western governments.

[Shaker]

Of course it's going to say that because it exposes the hypocrisy and outright lies of western governments.

On no evidence whatever and relying on flat assertion unsupported by anything resembling fact.

Now where have we seen that before ...?

[Owlswing]

Yet again, just asserting something to be the case doesn't mean that it is.

Shaker

The man is a total (insert derogatory term of your choice) and I for one am wasting no more time or effort on him - take a break from a fruitless waste of time and do the same, there are far more important things to worry about and turn your talents to than responding to a terminal delusional.

[ad_orientem]

On no evidence whatever and relying on flat assertion unsupported by anything resembling fact.

Now where have we seen that before ...?

They have presented plenty of evidence.

[ad_orientem]

Shaker

The man is a total (insert derogatory term of your choice) and I for one am wasting no more time or effort on him - take a break from a fruitless waste of time and do the same, there are far more important things to worry about and turn your talents to than responding to a terminal delusional.

You are beneath contempt.

[Shaker]

They have presented plenty of evidence.

I'm listening - go on ...

[Shaker]

Shaker

The man is a total (insert derogatory term of your choice) and I for one am wasting no more time or effort on him - take a break from a fruitless waste of time and do the same, there are far more important things to worry about and turn your talents to than responding to a terminal delusional.

I fully understand the sentiment, Owly, but I don't see why such foul and pernicious opinions should be given a free pass and allowed to go through on the nod without challenge.

[ad_orientem]

I'm listening - go on ...

Can't you find RT on your internet? And I gave links from Anonymous sources showing western involvement in the creation of ISIS.

[Shaker]

Can't you find RT on your internet?

Yes, of course I can, but since it's a mouthpiece for the Kremlin, why would I want to besmirch my browser with such tripe?