The Afterlife - a possible scenario

[Owlswing]

I fully understand the sentiment, Owly, but I don't see why such foul and pernicious opinions should be given a free pass and allowed to go through on the nod without challenge.

The problem is that you are trying to explain colour to a blind man, music to a deaf one and one who will not believe you when you tell him he is pissing on his feet even though he can feel his socks getting wet! As wet as his unquestioning belief in any and every conspiracy theory that comes along that slags off the US and/or Israel.

[ad_orientem]

You lack spiritual discernment and that's why you don't see it, these anti-Christian forces at work. Instead you have unwittingly become a tool of the devil.

[Shaker]

Perfect way to triumph in a debate - invent some bullshit and say that your opponent is blinded by it.

I'll introduce you to Alan Burns the next time he's online. It's a favourite of his.

[Leonard James]

Perfect way to triumph in a debate - invent some bullshit and say that your opponent is blinded by it.

I'll introduce you to Alan Burns the next time he's online. It's a favourite of his.

Whatever would "God" do without his fall guy?

[ad_orientem]

Yes, of course I can, but since it's a mouthpiece for the Kremlin, why would I want to besmirch my browser with such tripe?

See what I mean? You're not interested in knowing the truth.

[Rhiannon]

You lack spiritual discernment and that's why you don't see it, these anti-Christian forces at work. Instead you have unwittingly become a tool of the devil.

I don't think Shaker's the tool round here.

[SweetPea]

See what I mean? You're not interested in knowing the truth.

Ad_O, it's no good. They have to find it for themselves. Sometimes it can be a case of mundus vult decipi - the world wants to be deceived. The truth is to complex and frightening.

[Rhiannon]

The only thing that frightens me, SP, is that people still believe this stuff. Especially a lovely person like you. 

[Shaker]

Ad_O, it's no good. They have to find it for themselves

Find what?

The truth is to complex and frightening.

I agree with Oscar Wilde in most things, rarely more so than in his quip that "The truth is rarely pure and never simple."

Unfortunately for you lot the truth has to be known to be the truth rather than merely accepted as such on the basis of a bald assertion of some dogmatic tripe or another, and that takes a proper procedure and methodology which you have yet to provide.

[SweetPea]

Well, for years I looked not much further than the media for info on politics. But then started to dig deeper. There's a lot more to be found. A good place to start re our own government is 'The Establishment and how they get away with it' by Owen Jones.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Find what?I agree with Oscar Wilde in most things, rarely more so than in his quip that "The truth is rarely pure and never simple."

Unfortunately for you lot the truth has to be known to be the truth rather than merely accepted as such on the basis of a bald assertion of some dogmatic tripe or another, and that takes a proper procedure and methodology which you have yet to provide.

You do know Oscar Wilde was a real person in his own right and not just Stephen Fry in a page boy costume?

[Shaker]

You do know Oscar Wilde was a real person in his own right and not just Stephen Fry in a page boy costume?

Yes, I was previously aware of that.

[Owlswing]

I don't think Shaker's the tool round here.

Nice one Lady Rhi!

[Owlswing]

Well, for years I looked not much further than the media for info on politics. But then started to dig deeper. There's a lot more to be found. A good place to start re our own government is 'The Establishment and how they get away with it' by Owen Jones.

Another pathetic Conspiracy theorist dupe!

[torridon]

Torriden....What is being ''Illuded'' and what is doing the believing?

Put it this way, the illusion is that there is an ontologically distinct thing 'inside' us that is having experience, but that is not really quite true; more accurate would be to talk in terms of us having a sense of self, something that is created by our brains, like our sense of balance or our sense of taste or our sense of right and wrong even. The feeling that there is an intangible and irreducible being inside us is overwhelmingly compelling but perhaps it is an ephemeral cerebral construct synthesised out of all our senses and memories and inidividual characteristics.

[Sriram]

Put it this way, the illusion is that there is an ontologically distinct thing 'inside' us that is having experience, but that is not really quite true; more accurate would be to talk in terms of us having a sense of self, something that is created by our brains, like our sense of balance or our sense of taste or our sense of right and wrong even. The feeling that there is an intangible and irreducible being inside us is overwhelmingly compelling but perhaps it is an ephemeral cerebral construct synthesised out of all our senses and memories and inidividual characteristics.

If  something looks like a dog, barks like a dog and walks like a dog.....its probably a dog.

So....if something feels like a Self and behaves like a Self,  its probably the Self.  What evidence do you have that it is not a Self and just an illusion?!

[torridon]

Put it this way, the illusion is that there is an ontologically distinct thing 'inside' us that is having experience, but that is not really quite true; more accurate would be to talk in terms of us having a sense of self, something that is created by our brains, like our sense of balance or our sense of taste or our sense of right and wrong even. The feeling that there is an intangible and irreducible being inside us is overwhelmingly compelling but perhaps it is an ephemeral cerebral construct synthesised out of all our senses and memories and inidividual characteristics.

If something looks like a dog, barks like a dog and walks like a dog.....its probably a dog.

So....if something feels like a Self and behaves like a Self,  its probably the Self.  What evidence do you have that it is not a Self and just an illusion?!

eerm, well the problem is that there is no evidence, for this 'dog', not even any definition.  Could you describe the coordinates, extent, mass or speed of your self, or what is made of ? Probably not, whereas on the other hand we do have plenty of evidence of neurobiological processess involved in producing the various components of our internal mental experience.

[Sriram]

eerm, well the problem is that there is no evidence, for this 'dog', not even any definition.  Could you describe the coordinates, extent, mass or speed of your self, or what is made of ? Probably not, whereas on the other hand we do have plenty of evidence of neurobiological processess involved in producing the various components of our internal mental experience.

No one is denying neurological processes taking place. Just because a car moves forward because of its wheels, pistons, axle, engine etc......doesn't mean there is no driver.

You agreed that the idea of a Self is 'overwhelmingly compelling'....so you should say why it cannot exist. 

[Leonard James]

No one is denying neurological processes taking place. Just because a car moves forward because of its wheels, pistons, axle, engine etc......doesn't mean there is no driver.

You agreed that the idea of a Self is 'overwhelmingly compelling'....so you should say why it cannot exist.

Surely "self" is that part of the brain which coordinates all the incoming stimuli and reacts to them.

[torridon]

No one is denying neurological processes taking place. Just because a car moves forward because of its wheels, pistons, axle, engine etc......doesn't mean there is no driver.

You agreed that the idea of a Self is 'overwhelmingly compelling'....so you should say why it cannot exist.

I'm not saying it cannot exist, more that there is no evidence for it, or at least none for a primal ontologically distinct thing, inside us, which is sort of how it feels. What the evidence does suggest, is that we develop a sense of self in terms of a unitary focal point of volition, agency, memory, experience and so forth which persists over time thanks to the fidelity of cell replication. We can infer complex processes going on under the hood to create this sense by examining cases where it breaks down - people with xenomelia, body dysmorphia, or amputee syndrome for example, these are outcomes associated with an underperforming sense of self.

[floo]

Some cars don't need a driver, Sriram.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/401562/pathway-driverless-cars-summary.pdf

Driverless cars are a recipe for disaster imo!

[Udayana]

As bad as driverless brains?

[torridon]

Driverless cars are a recipe for disaster imo!

Au contraire, human-driven cars are the cause of thousands of road casualties each year.  In a hundred or so years time, people will look back in disbelief that we allowed non-professional drivers in privately owned cars onto the roads with all their dispositions for drink and drugs and texting.

[ippy]

If  something looks like a dog, barks like a dog and walks like a dog.....its probably a dog.

So....if something feels like a Self and behaves like a Self,  its probably the Self.  What evidence do you have that it is not a Self and just an illusion?!

Quoting Douglas Adams Sriram? Whatever next?

ippy

[Leonard James]

If  something looks like a dog, barks like a dog and walks like a dog.....its probably a dog.

So....if something feels like a Self and behaves like a Self,  its probably the Self.  What evidence do you have that it is not a Self and just an illusion?!

The human brain feels like a self and behaves like a self, so that is exactly what it is.