Author Topic: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?  (Read 2514 times)

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« on: January 25, 2016, 10:42:41 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-35400694

Thoughts?  Have you ever had such a visit?  Have to say that on occasion, I've come home to find the front door unlocked - even though closed - and my wife/daughter/son-in-law in the back garden and out of earshot of the front door.  I've generally made a comment about the inappropriateness of this.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 12:22:18 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-35400694

Thoughts?  Have you ever had such a visit?  Have to say that on occasion, I've come home to find the front door unlocked - even though closed - and my wife/daughter/son-in-law in the back garden and out of earshot of the front door.  I've generally made a comment about the inappropriateness of this.

I'm the miserable old git that keep telling the family to turn the key in the back door when they're on their own at home and spending more than just a few moments upstairs.

Unfortunately there are opportunist types around that will give places, any place a try and it only takes a moment to grab one or more valuable items, sometimes they are walking about with a woman and small child, hoping to reduce suspicion.

You always need to be careful even if you are living in the wilds, so you could say I'm with you on this one Hope, you can put that one in your diary.

ippy
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 01:03:30 PM by ippy »

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 06:33:25 AM »
No doubt the people who complain about this police action are the first to seek police help when they get robbed.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016, 07:25:57 AM »
I've got no problem with the police checking doors and then demonstrating to people their security weaknesses. But tweeting pictures of it? Peoples' homes? Their private spaces? Really?

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 08:14:11 AM »
I've got no problem with the police checking doors and then demonstrating to people their security weaknesses. But tweeting pictures of it? Peoples' homes? Their private spaces? Really?
It's not as if they are tweeting the location or even the external view of the house, so I'm not sure that some of the angst in a few of the responses at the bottom of the page are really valid, but I too wonder the value of tweeting such images.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

floo

  • Guest
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 09:33:58 AM »
We have the door chain on the front door during the day, and lock it about 4pm in winter, slightly later in summer.

L.A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5278
    • Radcliffe U3A
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 03:21:24 PM »
 I wonder what would happen if they were attacked by a dog?
Brexit Bar:

Full of nuts but with lots of flakey bits and a bitter aftertaste

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 04:10:04 PM »
If the cops just walked into my house I would tell them to get out before I call Global Calgary. That's not legal for them to do that in my country. Wasting tax payers money going door to door and walking into homes unannounced, what next?

http://svan.ca/police-rights/

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 04:17:57 PM »

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 04:18:39 PM »
I wonder what would happen if they were attacked by a dog?
Probably sue the owners ::)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 04:46:06 PM »
Good doggie. There was a fresh out of Bible college preacher who I couldn't stand. Well he went to our homestead where my aunt lived, to get my sister and bring her up to our farm a couple hours north. My aunt owned a trained police dog. A German Shepard that the RCMP dog training facility sold because it didn't look like a German Shepard should. Body too long, hair too long, floppy ears. His name was Sam and I have his dog tag and keep it with her key to her shot gun that she passed on to me. Anyways, Mr. Too big for his pants came roaring into the farm and my sister and aunt were watching out the kitchen window. If you didn't know Sam and he didn't know you, my aunt would usually keep a hold of the dog until all were seated in the kitchen or living room. Well my Aunt knew of this young, on fire, preacher so she left Sam outside. Sam was a big dog and scary. Gordon hopped out of the car and Sam shot around the side of the house barking like he was taking down a coyote. My sister and aunt were in a fit of laughter as they watched that guy scramble onto the top of his car. My aunt slowly walked out and called Sam to her side. Gordon was just about crying and screaming at her that she must keep that dog on a leash. My aunt told him to shut up, and then said, "Now climb down off your car and be a man, I suppose you will need to use the bathroom."

L.A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5278
    • Radcliffe U3A
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 07:29:06 PM »
Probably sue the owners ::)

Yes, that's just what I was thinking. I wonder if it ever crossed the minds of the Plods involved?
Brexit Bar:

Full of nuts but with lots of flakey bits and a bitter aftertaste

Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 02:13:17 PM »
Probably sue the owners ::)

I don't think they can, if they are actually in the house.

I read somewhere that if  a dog bites an intruder in the house, it's considered ok because the dog is doing his job and comes under self defence.

However it isn't the same in the garden, in the garden you have to bite him yourself   
;)

floo

  • Guest
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2016, 02:16:00 PM »
I am not sure what the law is now where dogs are concerned, I think it may have changed fairly recently.

I am on a US website where some crazy Americans are praising pitbulls; which that daft country permits people to own! >:(

Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 02:25:54 PM »
I saw this.

Quote

What happens if my pet dog bites an intruder in my house?
This will depend on the exact circumstances of the incident. The following should be used as a guide only for possible scenarios, as each case will be considered individually.

if you set your dog onto an intruder and the person suffers injury then you may face prosecution and the court could order the dog to be kept under control/destroyed (dangerous dog not under control).
if an intruder breaks in whilst you are out and is attacked by the dog then it is unlikely that you would face the need to defend a possible court order.
There is also civil liability to consider in any damage that your dog may cause. It should be noted that most dogs will simply bark at an intruder but will not follow with a physical attack.

 

http://www.northants.police.uk/#!/information/7352


So in theory, provided you didn't set the dog on them and got the dog under control as soon as you were able, you would probably be ok, because the dogs is doing its job.


However you can use reasonable force yourself

Quote

Does the law protect me? What is 'reasonable force'?
Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.

What amounts to disproportionate force? I’ve heard I can use that.
The force you use must always be reasonable in the circumstances as you believe them to be. Where you are defending yourself or others from intruders in your home, it might still be reasonable in the circumstances for you to use a degree of force that is subsequently considered to be disproportionate, perhaps if you are acting in extreme circumstances in the heat of the moment and don’t have a chance to think about exactly how much force would be necessary to repel the intruder: it might seem reasonable to you at the time but, with hindsight, your actions may seem disproportionate. The law will give you the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances.

This only applies if you were acting in self-defence or to protect others in your home and the force you used was disproportionate – disproportionate force to protect property is still unlawful.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html


The key words here are

Quote

reasonable in the circumstances as you believe them to be. Where you are defending yourself or others from intruders in your home, it might still be reasonable in the circumstances for you to use a degree of force that is subsequently considered to be disproportionate, perhaps if you are acting in extreme circumstances in the heat of the moment and don’t have a chance to think about exactly how much force would be necessary to repel the intruder: it might seem reasonable to you at the time but, with hindsight, your actions may seem disproportionate. The law will give you the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances.




There is lots of room in there, especially if you are a woman, to do an intruder some serious harm.

 >:(

Don't leave it to the dog.




« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 02:27:41 PM by Rose »

L.A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5278
    • Radcliffe U3A
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 03:06:03 PM »
Quote
So in theory, provided you didn't set the dog on them and got the dog under control as soon as you were able, you would probably be ok, because the dogs is doing its job.

So if a police officer came stalking round your house and your (lawfully held) dog stuck his teeth into the officers thigh - he wouldn't have a leg to stand on  :)
Brexit Bar:

Full of nuts but with lots of flakey bits and a bitter aftertaste

Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Are unlocked frontdoors legit. police targets?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 03:11:06 PM »
So if a police officer came stalking round your house and your (lawfully held) dog stuck his teeth into the officers thigh - he wouldn't have a leg to stand on  :)

Not in my opinion he wouldn't  ;)

The police are not meant to enter a property without a court order or permission.

The dog would be the least of his worries  :D

He'd be lucky to have any legs to stand on  ;)