More US election stuff

[ProfessorDavey]

That's a different type. Clinton was the rotten real McCoy.

I never said that Clinton isn't a member of the rich establishment elite. I would countering your implied assertion that Trump isn't.

Without doubt both Trump and Clinton are top drawer, paid up members of the rich establishment elite. There is a difference - Clinton wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth in the manner that Trump was - don't forget this is a guy who considered a $1million gift from his father when he was in his 20s as a 'very small loan'. Hmm.

Let's be honest here JK, Trump is every bit as much rich, establishment elite as Clinton.

[ad_orientem]

A good article from a Democrat.

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.hz5th2te7

[Harrowby Hall]

Hardly an article, more of a rant.

[Nearly Sane]

A good article from a Democrat.

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.hz5th2te7

Surely it was Trump's rhetoric that showed his values? The main issue I have with the article is that it misses that Trump could get to nominate up to four justices to the Supreme Court through a Republican Senate pushing to the right, and having chosen in Pence a VP showing his need to keep the support of the religious right.

[Jack Knave]

Surely it was Trump's rhetoric that showed his values? The main issue I have with the article is that it misses that Trump could get to nominate up to four justices to the Supreme Court through a Republican Senate pushing to the right, and having chosen in Pence a VP showing his need to keep the support of the religious right.

We should keep in mind that the Republicans are split three ways i.e. the factions are opposed to each other in a similar way Labour's factions are.

[Hope]

Whilst I'm afraid that I don't have a great deal of confidence that this could ever happen, I will have to laugh if - in 4 or 8 years' time - the general consensus is that Trump has done a good job; not necessarily been amongst the greatest of US presidents, but someone who has actually brought the nation together, has strengthened the economy and made US society a fairer, more equal one.

[Jack Knave]

Whilst I'm afraid that I don't have a great deal of confidence that this could ever happen, I will have to laugh if - in 4 or 8 years' time - the general consensus is that Trump has done a good job; not necessarily been amongst the greatest of US presidents, but someone who has actually brought the nation together, has strengthened the economy and made US society a fairer, more equal one.

He'll only last one term. He has promised so much to an outlying factional group, who will be disappointed, and will never get enough of the rest, even if he does a good-ish job, and the Democrats will get their act together with a new face, such that he won't return.

[Hope]

He'll only last one term. He has promised so much to an outlying factional group, who will be disappointed, and will never get enough of the rest, even if he does a good-ish job, and the Democrats will get their act together with a new face, such that he won't return.

Unfortunately, JK, such views on a number of US Presidents have been proven wrong in the past.

[jeremyp]

A good article from a Democrat.

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.hz5th2te7

It's got lies in it. How can it be good?

[jeremyp]

He'll only last one term. He has promised so much to an outlying factional group, who will be disappointed, and will never get enough of the rest, even if he does a good-ish job, and the Democrats will get their act together with a new face, such that he won't return.

Obama failed to deliver on his first term promises and he got a second term. GW Bush was a disaster in his first term but got a second term. Whilst I think you are right - because even GWB was good compared with Trump - I wouldn't bet against a second term.

On the other hand, I also wouldn't bet against him not lasting a full first term.

[ad_orientem]

It's got lies in it. How can it be good?

What lies?

[Brownie]

The thing about Trump is he starting with the bar very low.  Most people expect him to be a disaster so if he manages to achieve one or two good or popular things they will start to be pleased with him.

[jeremyp]

What lies?

Hillary Clinton rigging the primaries for one.

[ad_orientem]

Hillary Clinton rigging the primaries for one.

But that's not a lie.

[floo]

It is a lie, imo. I see there a lots of protests against Trump all over the US, I don't remember that ever happening before when a President has been elected.

[JP]

"Educated" people who cannot see past the end of their nose protesting against something that did not go their way, and they will never understand why. Same as Brexit.

Hillary Clinton was as bad a choice as Donald Trump was. A lot of Americans see her as a liar and responsible for the deaths of the embassy staff in Libya.

[floo]

"Educated" people who cannot see past the end of their nose protesting against something that did not go their way, and they will never understand why. Same as Brexit.

Hillary Clinton was as bad a choice as Donald Trump was. A lot of Americans see her as a liar and responsible for the deaths of the embassy staff in Libya.

Not even a performing monkey would be as bad a choice as Trump!

[JP]

Not even a performing monkey would be as bad a choice as Trump!

It's not that I don't disagree with you, it is simply that the political elites are so detached they seem to truly have no idea what is happening or why it is happening. They themselves have created this fertile ground by ignoring the signs, steamrollering over people, mocking them even.

Brexit
Trump
Le Pen............?

Do you think they have got it yet. I don't as I still read many articles by rich lefties, detached from it all, in their own little world. Seems like the plebs aren't happy being useful tools any more.

[Udayana]

Has anyone spelt out what the "plebs" actually want? Is it something achievable?

[JP]

A second night of protests in the US against President-elect Donald Trump has turned violent in Portland, Oregon.

Several thousand demonstrators gathered in the centre of the western city. Some smashed shop and car windows, threw firecrackers and set rubbish alight.

Police in Portland accused some demonstrators of carrying bats and arming themselves with rocks. Objects were thrown at the police, who responded with pepper spray and rubber baton rounds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37946231

That's the way to do it. Break some random stuff up.

I always find it amusing how demonstrators are defined.

Left = left
Right = far right ( just being right does not exist any more)

Lefty who disrupts and breaks things = activist
Righty who disrupts and breaks things = fascist thug

[Harrowby Hall]

I agree with a lot of what you say, JP, but I think that "the plebs"have their own problems, too.

Trump is promising to restore manufacturing jobs. What he isn't saying is that for the USA to be a major commodity goods manufacturer it will have to be able to compete with China (and other places) in the employment market. How many people will be prepared to receive third-world wages for the privilege of manufacturing their own products? For that matter, how many Americans will be prepared to pay realistic prices for goods not made in low-wage economies? (Of course, Trump could be just sloganising - like his meaningless "make America great again".)

Having said that, I think that one major error made in the UK was making main-grade nursing a graduate entry profession. There must have been many potential nurses for whom that was perceived as a barrier too many, having to stay at school in the sixth form ... and so on. The nurses imported from the rest of the world to keep the NHS going are among the reviled immigrants whose presence helped fuel the Brexit vote. The scatter gun given to "the plebs" scattered just a little too widely to be in "the plebs" best interest!

[wigginhall]

The economics of it are interesting.  Clinton lost in the rust belt, apparently because many blue-collar workers saw free trade as having led to factory closures.   So Trump is arguing for the destruction of free trade deals, and then what?  Presumably, tariffs against Chinese goods?  That often leads to retaliation, of course.   We shall see if Trump can bring jobs back to the rust belt, although I think this had been happening to an extent under Obama.

But Trump is also promising massive spending on infrastructure, building roads, bridges, and so on.  Ironically, this is often a policy of the left, or Keynesians.

I hadn't really noticed in the debates that Trump landed powerful blows against Clinton on free trade, and she stumbled and stuttered. 

So it goes.

[Udayana]

How is he going to fund all those works?

The USA has been consistently in debt to the Chinese by over $1 trillion since 2010 - and he will block trade with China?

[wigginhall]

How is he going to fund all those works?

The USA has been consistently in debt to the Chinese by over $1 trillion since 2010 - and he will block trade with China?

He's also talking about big tax cuts, as well, isn't he?   I guess he will borrow big time. 

Having said that, Clinton was very vulnerable on free trade, OK, I know that hindsight is an exact science.

[JP]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/GLG9g7BcjKs

About 6 mins of your time. Why Trump won by Jonathan Pie who is a satirical news reporter character created and played by actor Tom Walker