More US election stuff

[Sebastian Toe]

The chief role of the VP is to take over if the president is incapacitated. If Trump is incapacitated, Pence will take over under the US Constitution. It doesn't matter if people didn't vote for him (although the constitutional rule means technically they did since the president/vice president combination come as a package), it's the law.

I'm not saying you are wrong but as Trump is not technically the president until the electoral college makes their decision, does that still hold?
Weirdly I think is possible also for the Democrats to ditch Clinton and propose another candidate, even a Republican, to be voted for by the college! Not that it will happen but it just goes to show what a strange, to us, system they have!

[Nearly Sane]

I'm not saying you are wrong but as Trump is not technically the president until the electoral college makes their decision, does that still hold?
Weirdly I think is possible also for the Democrats to ditch Clinton and propose another candidate, even a Republican, to be voted for by the college! Not that it will happen but it just goes to show what a strange, to us, system they have!

My understanding is no it doesn't hold, but were Trump to be indicted and somehow barred before the college meets on 12th December, I suspect there would've abstentions in the college which means it would pass to the House of Representatives who could only choose either Trump or Clinton. I then suspect the Republicans to ensure that neither gets confirmed, and then the Senate gets to vote on the VP which would be Pence, and then he would by default become President.


All a bit moot, as I don't think there is a chance that anything will happen against Trump till well after 12th December

[Nearly Sane]

This is quite scary

http://tinyurl.com/zfjj33e

[Udayana]

Scarier than clicking on links with no idea where they are going to land you?

[wigginhall]

One of the interesting things about the Trump win is that it seems to shatter the neo-liberal set of policies favoured by the Clintons and Obama, and much of the Republican party, I would think.   Hence, his hostility to free trade, which Clinton famously championed.

However, Trump also scored with his ferocious racist and misogynist stances, which presumably went down well with some of the 'left behind', that is, the white ones.

However, it leaves the US in a right pickle, it seems to me.   No doubt Trump will cobble together some economic measures, for example, helping the rich pay less tax, but whether he can really bring jobs back to the rust belt is in doubt, especially as automation has played a part.  However, he seems to be promising massive spending on infrastructure - Keynesian!

I suppose there is a plus side, that Trump is notoriously inconsistent.   Who knows whether he will really do some of the things he has promised?   But in any case, the right wing have been unleashed, so that minorities and women are no doubt pretty scared.   

[Harrowby Hall]

The chief role of the VP is to take over if the president is incapacitated. If Trump is incapacitated, Pence will take over under the US Constitution. It doesn't matter if people didn't vote for him (although the constitutional rule means technically they did since the president/vice president combination come as a package), it's the law.

I thought, from the context of SusanDoris's earlier post, that we were discussing what would happen if Trump were to stand down before his election were confirmed.

[Jack Knave]

I reckon we saw the real Trump when he came back from Mexico during the campaign. We saw the façade of Trump whilst he engaged with the Mexican PM (or whatever they are called) but when he came back he reiterated that he was going to build the wall and the way he did that told me that that was the real Trump. What we are seeing now is the façade Trump in order to give himself time to build a power base in Washington. All vulnerable leaders play the compromise card early on when they are newly in power and still too weak to lay down the law. This would mean that what he said in the campaign essentially sets out his true position. Corbyn did a similar thing when he first became Labour leader and still has the hope that he can infest the Labour power points with his people.

[ProfessorDavey]

I reckon we saw the real Trump when he came back from Mexico during the campaign. We saw the façade of Trump whilst he engaged with the Mexican PM (or whatever they are called) but when he came back he reiterated that he was going to build the wall and the way he did that told me that that was the real Trump. What we are seeing now is the façade Trump in order to give himself time to build a power base in Washington. All vulnerable leaders play the compromise card early on when they are newly in power and still too weak to lay down the law. This would mean that what he said in the campaign essentially sets out his true position.

My reckoning is the opposite.

Trump ramped up the rhetoric to get elected. In office he will be much more moderate. Lets not forget that, regardless of his rather offensive personality, a successful businessman. He won't have achieved success without be a deal maker and being pragmatic.

So the wall is already becoming a fence, and the suggestion that the Mexican's will pay is being quietly dropped. In due course the physical fence will become a metaphorical fence, meaning tougher immigration rules. The reality too is that it would be implausible impractical to actually build a wall along the whole of the Mexico/US border. Or at least impractical to build one that would actually work, in other words preventing people crossing.

[jeremyp]

My reckoning is the opposite.

Trump ramped up the rhetoric to get elected. In office he will be much more moderate.

Judging by the people he is picking for government, I don't think that assertion can be supported.

Lets not forget that, regardless of his rather offensive personality, a successful businessman. He won't have achieved success without be a deal maker and being pragmatic.

He's been bankrupt four times. He routinely bullies subcontractors into accepting less money than they contracted for. Some of his companies are scams. Even his personal wealth is contentious. Some people have speculated that the reason he does not release his tax returns is because he is not nearly as rich as he would like us to believe.

He is not really a successful businessman.

So the wall is already becoming a fence, and the suggestion that the Mexican's will pay is being quietly dropped. In due course the physical fence will become a metaphorical fence, meaning tougher immigration rules. The reality too is that it would be implausible impractical to actually build a wall along the whole of the Mexico/US border. Or at least impractical to build one that would actually work, in other words preventing people crossing.

The reality is that the wall/fence would be far too expensive and cross through far too many republican constituencies for it to get through Congress.

[Jack Knave]

My reckoning is the opposite.

Trump ramped up the rhetoric to get elected. In office he will be much more moderate. Lets not forget that, regardless of his rather offensive personality, a successful businessman. He won't have achieved success without be a deal maker and being pragmatic.

So the wall is already becoming a fence, and the suggestion that the Mexican's will pay is being quietly dropped. In due course the physical fence will become a metaphorical fence, meaning tougher immigration rules. The reality too is that it would be implausible impractical to actually build a wall along the whole of the Mexico/US border. Or at least impractical to build one that would actually work, in other words preventing people crossing.

My assessment is based on the earnestness and underlining passion in which he said it. As I said the rhetoric now is his façade one for appeasing his way to not just the White House but getting his roots deeply embedded into the system. The wall is a minor aspect of his wishes, I believe he has more personal and egotistical plans ahead.

[Jack Knave]

Judging by the people he is picking for government, I don't think that assertion can be supported.
He's been bankrupt four times. He routinely bullies subcontractors into accepting less money than they contracted for. Some of his companies are scams. Even his personal wealth is contentious. Some people have speculated that the reason he does not release his tax returns is because he is not nearly as rich as he would like us to believe.

He is not really a successful businessman.
The reality is that the wall/fence would be far too expensive and cross through far too many republican constituencies for it to get through Congress.

Surprisingly, I agree with most of that. If only you could open your eyes and see the EU, the way you see Trump, in its truly evil light.

[floo]

Surprisingly, I agree with most of that. If only you could open your eyes and see the EU, the way you see Trump, in its truly evil light.

You must have your eyes closed tight shut, if you believe the EU is evil!

[Brownie]

Evil is everywhere, floo, it lurks in corners, unseen.  Aaargh.

[Sriram]

You must have your eyes closed tight shut, if you believe the EU is evil!

Evil is relative. Whatever hurts someone is 'evil' in their eyes.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh joy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38027519

[floo]

America under Trump will make even North Korea look good!

[Brownie]

That really is an alarming BBC news article but most of it is not surprising. 

Kanye West saying he would have voted for Trump does surprise me. "Would have..", could he not vote?

Jeremy (about DT):  He's been bankrupt four times. He routinely bullies subcontractors into accepting less money than they contracted for. Some of his companies are scams. Even his personal wealth is contentious. Some people have speculated that the reason he does not release his tax returns is because he is not nearly as rich as he would like us to believe.

He is not really a successful businessman.


I too heard that from a couple of sources. 
Apparently he lost a lot of the money he got from his father.

[floo]

If all that is true, I wouldn't be surprised, Trump doesn't seem to be a very honest person! Why hasn't he been brought to court, the Americans are normally very quick to sue?

[Brownie]

I suppose he manages to stay on the right side of the law and anyway it would take someone even more rich to successfully sue him.

[Harrowby Hall]

I suppose he manages to stay on the right side of the law and anyway it would take someone even more rich to successfully sue him.

Or perhaps he uses similar strategies to the late (and unlamented) Savile - bullying potential complainants with threats of dire consequences if try to complain.

[Jack Knave]

You must have your eyes closed tight shut, if you believe the EU is evil!

You must have closed your mind off if you can't.

[Brownie]

Or perhaps he uses similar strategies to the late (and unlamented) Savile - bullying potential complainants with threats of dire consequences if try to complain.

A really sinister idea but wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[floo]

Or perhaps he uses similar strategies to the late (and unlamented) Savile - bullying potential complainants with threats of dire consequences if try to complain.

Could be!

[Nearly Sane]

Points!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-jewish-muslim-registry-president-elect-rights-adl-anti-defamation-league-a7426341.html

[Brownie]

Excellent, I wish there were more like that man.