Author Topic: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it  (Read 22755 times)

Rhiannon

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2016, 07:01:14 PM »
As I said. If I ever leave Orthodoxy the only option left is atheism or something thereabout.

How will you know that that isn't the devil's deception?

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #101 on: February 01, 2016, 07:02:42 PM »
How will you know that that isn't the devil's deception?

It might well be.
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Rhiannon

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #102 on: February 01, 2016, 07:05:52 PM »
It might well be.

So if the devil led you to Catholicism and could to atheism, how do you know he isn't leading you now?

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #103 on: February 01, 2016, 07:07:14 PM »
To be fair, Shaker, I don't think ad_o will jump ship. All other denominations gave up their antisemitism years ago.

I wouldn't say that. Rather I'd say even Rome fell into the rank heresy of dspensationalism, but that's Vatican II for you, man. Peace! ::)
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Shaker

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2016, 07:07:23 PM »
As I said. If I ever leave Orthodoxy the only option left is atheism or something thereabout.
Why is that the only option?

Oh, and by the way, lest you think that I believe there's something bad about changing one's mind; changing one's mind in the light of subsequent/later/better evidence is a strength. It shows a flexibility of mind, a willingness to be open-minded and to be persuaded by the strength of evidence which is fluid and malleable and in keeping with a constantly changing universe as we can best understand it by the best, that's to say, the most demonstrably and consistently reliable methods we have at our disposal.

The key word here, though, is evidence, which is why I italicised it. Merely going from one authoritarian and dogmatic belief system to another (and with minor, superficial differences at that) isn't changing one's mind in the light of better evidence because there's no evidence in play. It's simply swapping one authority that claims to do your thinking and believing on your behalf for another authority that claims to do your thnking and believing on your behalf. It might be religious, it might be political, but that way leads on to nightmares. No need to guess about this; there's no mystery here; we've seen it time and time and time again.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 07:26:06 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #105 on: February 01, 2016, 07:09:53 PM »
So if the devil led you to Catholicism and could to atheism, how do you know he isn't leading you now?

Good heavens! The key is knowing who Christ is.
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Shaker

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #106 on: February 01, 2016, 07:10:36 PM »
I've googled this comment in relation to Churchill and have received no matches.

I Googled "Churchill ratted" and got several pages of results.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #107 on: February 01, 2016, 07:17:42 PM »
I wouldn't say that. Rather I'd say even Rome fell into the rank heresy of dspensationalism, but that's Vatican II for you, man. Peace! ::)

You do know that Vatican II sought reconciliation because of the part played by Catholicism in the Holocaust, right?

Rhiannon

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #108 on: February 01, 2016, 07:18:19 PM »
Good heavens! The key is knowing who Christ is.

The founder of Orthodoxy?

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #109 on: February 01, 2016, 07:33:18 PM »
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ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #110 on: February 01, 2016, 07:35:11 PM »
You do know that Vatican II sought reconciliation because of the part played by Catholicism in the Holocaust, right?

Reconciliation means heresy it's better to remain unreconciled. And exactly what role did Roman Catholicism play in the Holocaust anyway? Can such a thing even be demonstrated?
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Shaker

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #111 on: February 01, 2016, 07:36:07 PM »
Reconciliation means heresy it's better to remain unreconciled. And exactly what role did Roman Catholicism play in the Holocaust anyway? Can such a thing even be demonstrated?
Yes. Not only can be, has been. Still, it's not your one true church and absolute and final truth this year; what do you care?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

wigginhall

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #112 on: February 01, 2016, 07:36:52 PM »
I Googled "Churchill ratted" and got several pages of results.

That's a very well-known story in Manchester, as Churchill was MP for Oldham for a while, as a Tory, but then he ratted and became a Liberal, and re-ratted in the 20s, I think, although not in Oldham.
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Shaker

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #113 on: February 01, 2016, 07:37:48 PM »
That's a very well-known story in Manchester, as Churchill was MP for Oldham for a while, as a Tory, but then he ratted and became a Liberal, and re-ratted in the 20s, I think, although not in Oldham.
For a stocky chap he did trip the light fantastic across the floor, didn't he?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #114 on: February 01, 2016, 07:38:48 PM »
Yes. Not only can be, has been. Still, it's not your one true church and absolute and final truth this year; what do you care?

Are you referring to the myth of Hitler's pope or something completely different? If it's already been demonstrated then please go ahead and demonstrate it for us less enlightened.
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Rhiannon

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #115 on: February 01, 2016, 07:40:03 PM »
Aye!

I made that up, ad_o. Just like your church did, funnily enough.

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2016, 07:41:44 PM »
I made that up, ad_o. Just lime your church did, funnily enough.

Lime? Are you another old bow wow who don't know the difference between Liebfraumilch and a can of Tizer?
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Rhiannon

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #117 on: February 01, 2016, 07:43:24 PM »
Lime? Are you another old bow wow who don't know the difference between Liebfraumilch and a can of Tizer?

Well, that's politer than the last thing you called me.

Shaker

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #118 on: February 01, 2016, 07:43:46 PM »
Are you referring to the myth of Hitler's pope or something completely different? If it's already been demonstrated then please go ahead and demonstrate it for us all for us less enlightened.
No I'm not (although Pacelli's anti-Semitic statements are a matter of historical record). I was thinking along the lines of Christian anti-Semitism generally and, with regard to WWII, the complicity of certain senior Catholic figures in helping sundry Nazis evade justice at the end of the war via the well-known "ratlines" - Alois Hudal being the best known.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #119 on: February 01, 2016, 07:46:53 PM »
No I'm not (although Pacelli's anti-Semitic statements are a matter of historical record). I was thinking along the lines of Christian anti-Semitism generally and, with regard to WWII, the complicity of certain senior Catholic figures in helping sundry Nazis evade justice at the end of the war via the well-known "ratlines" - Alois Hudal being the best known.

There were pagans and atheists who helped the Nazis, both before, during and after the war. Was that the fault of paganism and atheism?
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ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #120 on: February 01, 2016, 07:47:47 PM »
Well, that's politer than the last thing you called me.

I can come up with a lot worse than before.
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Rhiannon

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #121 on: February 01, 2016, 07:53:51 PM »
I can come up with a lot worse than before.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Shaker

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #122 on: February 01, 2016, 07:54:24 PM »
There were pagans and atheists who helped the Nazis, both before, during and after the war. Was that the fault of paganism and atheism?
Nazi mysticism was based in worryingly large part on a bizarre and pretty well wholly mistaken misappropriation of Germanic paganism - a chaotic mish-mash of Spengler and Guido von List and what have you. What does this have to do with the complicity of Catholicism (especially) in the efforts to ensure that Nazi murderers evaded justice?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #123 on: February 01, 2016, 07:55:11 PM »
I can come up with a lot worse than before.
We're not questioning that you can; we're questioning why you would.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: More Anglicans support equal marriage than oppose it
« Reply #124 on: February 01, 2016, 07:56:51 PM »
Nazi mysticism was based in worryingly large part on a bizarre and pretty well wholly mistaken misappropriation of Germanic paganism - a chaotic mish-mash of Spengler and Guido von List and what have you. What does this have to do with the complicity of Catholicism (especially) in the efforts to ensure that Nazi murderers evaded justice?

Nice avoidance! Now, would you care to demonstrate that it was Roman Catholicism per se which played a part in the Holocaust or just some of its followers, just as there were followers of other religions and none? You can't. It's been tried and failed miserably on every occasion.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 08:02:12 PM by ad_orientem »
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