Woman jailed for taking child to join IS

[john]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35460697

It strikes me that there are two distinct sides to this story;

The child protection angle, if a British mother knowingly takes a British child into danger she deserves punishment on two counts for herself and to deter others.

But in jail she may become even more hardened and the punishment may therefore be inappropriate. Will the child grow up to feel his mother was a martyr and be inclined to respond violently?

Secondly, If however she was genuinely shocked and disillusioned by what she saw when she got there and realised she had made a mistake maybe it would have been a greater deterrent to others (benefit to society) to encourage her to relay the reality of what she found to others by imposing some sort of non custodial sentence allowing her the opportunity to tell it like it is.

Not sure what I think of this. Be interested in your comments guys and gals.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I am left with the thought that she repented of what she did but gets punished just the same anyway. Not a good message.

[Rhiannon]

From what I can gather she's not that bright and did something stupid that she regretted. Jailing her seems to be risking a massive own goal.

[Brownie]

I agree with both posters.   I am very glad she was disillusioned and it seems unjust, certainly not merciful, to imprison her.

[floo]

I think we need to crack down severely on anyone taking their children to join the evil
IS mob.

[Brownie]

Even if they didn't clearly know what they were getting into, changed their mind and wanted to come home?

[floo]

Even if they didn't clearly know what they were getting into, changed their mind and wanted to come home?

TOUGH, they should have thought it out first before they put their kid in danger!

[Rhiannon]

TOUGH, they should have thought it out first before they put their kid in danger!

But she was groomed online and fell for it.

[floo]

But she was groomed online and fell for it.

So?

[Brownie]

Oh floo, not everything is black and white.  Of course the woman in question needs to be questioned and monitored as well as an eye kept on her little one but prison?

She might just as well have stayed there and died!

[Rhiannon]

Oh floo, not everything is black and white.  Of course the woman in question needs to be questioned and monitored as well as an eye kept on her little one but prison?

She might just as well have stayed there and died!

Which is the only option left now for other daft young women stuck out there.

[Brownie]

Yup.
Some months ago a couple of young, single girls went out there.  One was only 15!!!!!  Her family were distraught (probably still are).

[floo]

Oh floo, not everything is black and white.  Of course the woman in question needs to be questioned and monitored as well as an eye kept on her little one but prison?

She might just as well have stayed there and died!

I would have had no sympathy whatsoever if she had, I am much more concerned about her child, having such a stupid mother! (and that is being polite).

[Bubbles]

I read she was sentenced to 6years but will be up for parole in 3.

[Bubbles]

It sounds to me like we don't know the whole story.

I would have thought there where many factors involved, like whether they believed she had really repented or was she coming back to be a martyr, plus its effect on her child.

Mine posed at a young age with guns, they just belonged to british soldiers, and that was considered ok.

it depends on the age of the child too, what they pick up.

[bluehillside Retd.]

HWB,

I am left with the thought that she repented of what she did but gets punished just the same anyway. Not a good message.

Presumably this person broke the criminal law. Under our legal system we don't exonerate people if they "repent" their crimes. Judges may take to account their remorse (or absence of it) when making sentencing decisions but the basic principle is that if you do the crime, you do the time.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Rose,

I would have thought there where many factors involved, like whether they believed she had really repented...

No. The law is the law. "Repentance" is often used by the religious, but it cannot affect the determination of whether or not the law has been broken. Inasmuch as there are sentencing guideline for some crimes the judge may take into account the degree of remorse of the criminal, but that's all.

[Rhiannon]

HWB,

Presumably this person broke the criminal law. Under our legal system we don't exonerate people if they "repent" their crimes. Judges may take to account their remorse (or absence of it) when making sentencing decisions but the basic principle is that if you do the crime, you do the time.

Yes, this is what I think too. I'm assuming the sentence fits with the tariff. It's bad law full stop rather than a poor individual judgement.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

HWB,

Presumably this person broke the criminal law. Under our legal system we don't exonerate people if they "repent" their crimes. Judges may take to account their remorse (or absence of it) when making sentencing decisions but the basic principle is that if you do the crime, you do the time.

If she had actually fought for Daesh & had valuable information about them she would be offered a deal. But there is no evidence that she did anything other than travel to territory under their control. She is not a modern day equivalent of the IRA terrorist Price sisters, she is a foolish young woman whose incarceration will damage her child's upbringing.

[Udayana]

The judge clearly gave his opinion that "she had shown no remorse" when sentencing her.

[bluehillside Retd.]

HWB,

If she had actually fought for Daesh & had valuable information about them she would be offered a deal. But there is no evidence that she did anything other than travel to territory under their control. She is not a modern day equivalent of the IRA terrorist Price sisters, she is a foolish young woman whose incarceration will damage her child's upbringing.

That's a different matter though. What you're saying here is that you don't think the law she broke is a good one. That may be the case but the fact is that it is there and she broke it: QED. Any "repentance" she showed may have been a mitigating factor when the judge considered the sentencing guidelines, but that's all.   

[bluehillside Retd.]

Udayana,

The judge clearly gave his opinion that "she had shown no remorse" when sentencing her.

There you go then. Possibly if she had have done she'd have received a more lenient sentence, but the choice was hers. 

[Owlswing]

Oh floo, not everything is black and white.  Of course the woman in question needs to be questioned and monitored as well as an eye kept on her little one but prison?

She might just as well have stayed there and died!

You must have a seriously slanted view of what life in a modern British prison is like if you find ISIS and Syria to be better options.

Prisoners in the UK, apart from the lack of liberty, are probably better off than a lot of service veterans who have fought militant Islam in Iraq and Afghanistan and pensioners who have worked all their lives for a pathetic pension that hardly pays the bills.

[Brownie]

I do know about British prisons Owlswing, I trained and worked as a volunteer in a men's prison for five years; it was a very tough place.  I'd have liked to work with women but the nearest women's prison to where I live was too far away.

No doubt the woman will be decently treated during her imprisonment, there would be no point in it being otherwise.  I was thinking more of the lack of freedom and separation from her child.  I expect her family will take care of him so she won't have worries on that score.  As someone above said, she will not serve the full six years - maybe not even three.  Sufficient time to ponder on what she did and everything that happened.  She's only 26 so, with a bit of help, when she is released she can move on.  We can't do anything more than hope.

[Hope]

I think we need to crack down severely on anyone taking their children to join the evil
IS mob.

Even if they realise their naivity and seek to make that error in judgement good?  Remember, Floo, that IS is a past-master of social media misrepresentation.