The Lord's Prayer

[Khatru]

Not really.   Many Christians support equal marriage and so on, and are quite liberal really.

Yes I'll go along with that.

However, are those Christians the exception as opposed to the rule?

What about the "death to gays" schtick in the OT?  Do these liberal Christians condemn that mindset or do they defend it?

[Nearly Sane]

Don't pull that one - Rhi did it once! By accident!

Hope and the troll do it every time they are talking about me and in Hope's case he should remember that you are known by the company you keep; keep the company of a troll and dyed in the wool Christian fundamentalists . . .

She did it nonetheless, and there was none of this 'you're insulting me' shite from you in that case.


As Hope has pointed out there are a couple of posters at least that get referred to by other names, Vlad more often than any of his names of the month, and while I have no great opinion of him, at least he doesn't pull this crap about it.

I had no clue till you went bat shit that any reference to your previous moniker was naughty and I am sure Hope was the same.

[Rhiannon]

Yes I'll go along with that.

However, are those Christians the exception as opposed to the rule?

What about the "death to gays" schtick in the OT?  Do these liberal Christians condemn that mindset or do they defend it?

Having once been a liberal Christian and hung out with quite a few I can say from experience that they have no time for the OT attitude to homosexuality. Or the Pauline one either.

[Rhiannon]

She did it nonetheless, and there was none of this 'you're insulting me' shite from you in that case.


As Hope has pointed out there are a couple of posters at least that get referred to by other names, Vlad more often than any of his names of the month, and while I have no great opinion of him, at least he doesn't pull this crap about it.

I had no clue till you went bat shit that any reference to your previous moniker was naughty and I am sure Hope was the same.

I didn't know either, otherwise I would have been more careful about not using it. Sorry, Owlswing.

[Owlswing]

I didn't know either, otherwise I would have been more careful about not using it. Sorry, Owlswing.

Don't be!

Yoiu only did it the once and I don't give a damn about NS's defence of Hope - I notice he doesn't defend the troll at the same time and for the same DELIBERATE use of the old moniker, so I would presume from that that he agrees that in the troll's case the use of "Matty" (more usually "dear" or "dearest" Matty - an HE accuses ME of having a crush!) is a deliberate attempt to annoy.

[Nearly Sane]

Don't be!

Yoiu only did it the once and I don't give a damn about NS's defence of Hope - I notice he doesn't defend the troll at the same time and for the same DELIBERATE use of the old moniker, so I would presume from that that he agrees that in the troll's case the use of "Matty" (more usually "dear" or "dearest" Matty - an HE accuses ME of having a crush!) is a deliberate attempt to annoy.

And you didn't blow up at Rhiannon, and I can't see that you've done it with the other poster - who I would refer to as Johnny, and he doesn't blow up at that.
I'm defending Hope because you attacked him, for something that you didn't attack Rhiannon for, and something she makes clear she had no knowledge was a wind up for you. So if she didn't know why is Hope supposed to?

Get over yourself.

[wigginhall]

Yes I'll go along with that.

However, are those Christians the exception as opposed to the rule?

What about the "death to gays" schtick in the OT?  Do these liberal Christians condemn that mindset or do they defend it?

Obviously, they don't defend it.  I think there are all kinds of attitudes to the Jewish Bible, for example, some liberals see it in a historical context, and therefore outmoded today. 

But in the C of E today, you have the strange position, that the church itself is officially homophobic, and seem to have joined in with the suspension of the American church, yet many members are gay-friendly.   For example, I used to go to a church where the rector himself was gay, and had a very obvious boy-friend.   I think the bishop disapproved, but the church itself was packed to the rafters.

From memory, the majority of US Catholics support gay marriage, and in fact, more than in the general population.

[Khatru]

[quote author=Sassy link=topic=11555.msg589626#msg589626 date=1455102250

Gods existence is not what makes a villain a villain....

Gods existence is neither lessened or increased by what an atheist believes.
[/quote]

Of course, you can substitute God with any one of the thousands of deities that are out there.  Do you believe or disbelieve in Shiva? Well, it matters not because Shiva's existence is neither lessened nor increased by what you believe.

"I would rather live my life as if there is a god
 and die to find out their isn't, than live my life
as if there isn't and dies to find out there is"

Note the lowercase "god" as opposed to the proper noun.  The phrase you quoted above is more about choosing the correct god from many.  You'll get a fright if you wake up after you've died and it's Baal sitting there waiting to judge you.

A WISE man but what does it mean to live your life as if there is a God?

IF there is a god or indeed gods.  Plural you see, not singular.

At the end of the line is where it counts...

[Khatru]

Having once been a liberal Christian and hung out with quite a few I can say from experience that they have no time for the OT attitude to homosexuality. Or the Pauline one either.

Interesting.

I wonder whether those particular believers will condemn the barbaric rules their god imposed or whether they will opt to defend them.   

Perhaps that needs a thread of its own!

[Khatru]

Obviously, they don't defend it.  I think there are all kinds of attitudes to the Jewish Bible, for example, some liberals see it in a historical context, and therefore outmoded today. 

But in the C of E today, you have the strange position, that the church itself is officially homophobic, and seem to have joined in with the suspension of the American church, yet many members are gay-friendly.   For example, I used to go to a church where the rector himself was gay, and had a very obvious boy-friend.   I think the bishop disapproved, but the church itself was packed to the rafters.

From memory, the majority of US Catholics support gay marriage, and in fact, more than in the general population.

Let's have a poll!

[Owlswing]

And you didn't blow up at Rhiannon, and I can't see that you've done it with the other poster - who I would refer to as Johnny, and he doesn't blow up at that.
I'm defending Hope because you attacked him, for something that you didn't attack Rhiannon for, and something she makes clear she had no knowledge was a wind up for you. So if she didn't know why is Hope supposed to?

Get over yourself.

JC is a special case - there is history and background of which you are totally unaware - so don't tell me how to deal with him.

Get over it.

[Rhiannon]

Interesting.

I wonder whether those particular believers will condemn the barbaric rules their god imposed or whether they will opt to defend them.   

Perhaps that needs a thread of its own!

IME liberals tend to focus on social justice and compassion. Not so much rules and Scripture. Most would probably say they are Christian in spite of the church rather than because of it and I know many struggle with it, which is why so many liberals leave.

[Nearly Sane]

JC is a special case - there is history and background of which you are totally unaware - so don't tell me how to deal with him.

Get over it.

I didn't tell you how to deal with him. Stop making shite up.

[Owlswing]

IME liberals tend to focus on social justice and compassion. Not so much rules and Scripture. Most would probably say they are Christian in spite of the church rather than because of it and I know many struggle with it, which is why so many liberals leave.

I know several people like that - they really struggle trying explain to people why the church is what it is, locked into antiquity and apparently incapable of getting out of it!

[wigginhall]

I think the recent decision to suspend the US church (Episcopalians), is causing trouble among liberals, as they see no prospect of homophobia being reduced in Anglicanism.   Some will leave, some will hang on, hoping to effect a change. 

It seems ironic that the general population has become less homophobic, the national church, more.

[Nearly Sane]

I think the recent decision to suspend the US church (Episcopalians), is causing trouble among liberals, as they see no prospect of homophobia being reduced in Anglicanism.   Some will leave, some will hang on, hoping to effect a change. 

It seems ironic that the general population has become less homophobic, the national church, more.

I can see the Scottish piskies being next to go.

[Owlswing]

I didn't tell you how to deal with him. Stop making shite up.

I can't see that you've done it with the other poster

This suggests that I am getting your dander up for having a go at Hope and not at Johnny - telling me I ought to treat them the same.

And Hope seems to be quite good at defending himself without your aid.

[Nearly Sane]

This suggests that I am getting your dander up for having a go at Hope and not at Johnny - telling me I ought to treat them the same.

And Hope seems to be quite good at defending himself without your aid.

No, I simply stated that to point out that there was no reason for Hope to know. If anything is getting my dander (and it is a huge throbbing dander when it gets going), it's your hypocrisy in the way you treated Rhiannon as opposed to Hope.


Again if Rhiannon didn't know you were antsy about Matt, how was Hope meant to know?

[wigginhall]

The other astonishing thing about Anglican attitudes to gays, is that African church leaders who have supported criminalization and imprisonment of gays, have not been censored, as far as I can see.   There is usually some feeble statement about treating everybody with love, but presumably that includes prison.  Hypocrisy, and then some.

[Owlswing]

No, I simply stated that to point out that there was no reason for Hope to know. If anything is getting my dander (and it is a huge throbbing dander when it gets going), it's your hypocrisy in the way you treated Rhiannon as opposed to Hope.


Again if Rhiannon didn't know you were antsy about Matt, how was Hope meant to know?

I have listed the histoty of my "handles" more than once!

Give it up! This is going precisely nowhere and why would Hope need you to defend him anyway - why is he not saying this himself, that's what is getting me riled!

[ippy]

It isn't really a logical reply that, Floo.

After all you never asked your parents to have you.
You say they tried to force you to do as they believed.
By your comment it makes your parents wrong to have given birth to you and allowing you your own choice and rebellion against their faith and them.


The basic truth is God created us, he created your parents and he created you.
He allowed you to choose. Why should it be different for Adam etc?

You need to think about these things.

4 assertions there Sassy what brought that on, were they all pent up ones you couldn't hang on to any longer without bursting? 

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

I have listed the histoty of my "handles" more than once!

Give it up! This is going precisely nowhere and why would Hope need you to defend him anyway - why is he not saying this himself, that's what is getting me riled!

Agree we have taken it about as far as it can go. I'll just note if I see something I think is unfair on anyone on here, i'm inclined to gird the loins.

That said, I can be a full blown 24 carat shitebag myself sometimes.

[ippy]

IF YOU has ever studied the word of God then you know that God and the Law is just and the righteous nature of the law had to be fully met. His love is unconditional in that though men failed and failed again he still made a way back once and for all.
Had you understood Spirit and Truth then you would not be lacking as you clearly are in Christian truth.

You made a mistake the error was to walk away from God and turn your back. Because your put yourself before him.

Blimey Sass 7 there?

ippy

[ippy]

Righteous demands of the law... Unconditional because the righteous demands of the law had to be met and you and no one else could fulfill that other than by dying the death you deserved.

So  Jesus Christ fulfilled the righteous demands of the law by being innocent and dying the death he had not earned and did not deserve.  It is simple and yet you don't know it and claim to have been a Christian and one who studied...

Gods existence is not what makes a villain a villain....

Gods existence is neither lessened or increased by what an atheist believes.

"I would rather live my life as if there is a god
 and die to find out their isn't, than live my life
as if there isn't and dies to find out there is"

A WISE man but what does it mean to live your life as if there is a God?

At the end of the line is where it counts...

Coming back down there Sass only three assertions this time.

ippy

[Owlswing]

Agree we have taken it about as far as it can go. I'll just note if I see something I think is unfair on anyone on here, i'm inclined to gird the loins.

That said, I can be a full blown 24 carat shitebag myself sometimes.

You want to see 24 carat diamond studded platinum inlaid ebony shitebag? See me when the Mother-in-law decides to give my daughter a bollocking on behalf of my ex!