Author Topic: Sikh women and turbans  (Read 4410 times)

Humph Warden Bennett

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Sikh women and turbans
« on: February 14, 2016, 12:15:52 PM »
A step towards equality? Or just reinforcing tradition?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35563415

Hope

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2016, 01:04:52 PM »
Not sure how something that has never occurred before can be seen as 'reinforcing tradition', Humph.
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Udayana

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 10:55:18 AM »
http://fateh.sikhnet.com/s/WhyTurbans

Quote
Why do many Sikh women women not wear a turban?

Devoted Sikh women of Indian ancestry usually have their heads covered, but many do not tie a turban. Sometimes it’s just a scarf, more often it’s a chuni. It is a personal choice. Each person, male or female must make this decision according to their own understanding of how to live as a Sikh. As I write this in 2012, I am seeing more and more Sikh women who are wearing turbans.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Bubbles

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 11:41:36 AM »
Not sure how something that has never occurred before can be seen as 'reinforcing tradition', Humph.

It has occurred before.

In Sikh history there have been female warriors and there is a tradition that women can wear the turban if they wish.

http://www.sikhwomen.com/turban/sikhs.htm

A bit about them here

Quote


From woman, man is born;
within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.
Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.
When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.
So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.
From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.


These are words that were uttered by the founder of Sikhism, Sri Guru Nanak Dev in about 1499. So for Sikhs from that period, there has been compulsion to treat women as equals and gender discrimination was not allowed. However, high principles set by prophets and religious leaders have always been very difficult to implement and put into practise. In this respect, equality for women has been a difficult class actually achieve in reality.

https://www.allaboutsikhs.com/great-sikh-women/great-sikh-women



IMO you are wrong Hope.

It has always been there, but culturally women haven't always taken it up.

But they have plenty of role models in the past should they wish to wear one.

It's part of being a Khalsa Sikh and a woman can be a Khalsa Sikh, just like a man.

Quote


The Khalsa Sikh men and women, who keep the Five Ks, wear the turban partly to cover their long, uncut hair (kesh). The Khalsa Sikhs regard the Dastaar as an important part of the unique Sikh identity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dastar




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Very interesting religion, Sikhism.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 11:50:18 AM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 12:12:53 PM »
There is a fair bit about it here , too.



Quote



Why do many Sikh women women not wear a turban?

Devoted Sikh women of Indian ancestry usually have their heads covered, but many do not tie a turban. Sometimes it’s just a scarf, more often it’s a chuni. It is a personal choice. Each person, male or female must make this decision according to their own understanding of how to live as a Sikh. As I write this in 2012, I am seeing more and more Sikh women who are wearing turbans.




http://fateh.sikhnet.com/s/WhyTurbans

I find Sikhism quite inspiring.

There are lots of good and wise things in it.


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« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 12:15:59 PM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 12:19:18 PM »
A step towards equality? Or just reinforcing tradition?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35563415

A bit of both.

Apparently women were more inclined to wear a turban in the past, and I think many are choosing to today because it is a symbol of equality that has sort of slipped.

It's good to see women asserting their spirituality IMO  ;)

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Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 08:02:07 AM »
A bit of both.

Apparently women were more inclined to wear a turban in the past, and I think many are choosing to today because it is a symbol of equality that has sort of slipped.

It's good to see women asserting their spirituality IMO  ;)

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So presumably you also think it a good thing that Muslim women cover themselves in public? I don't see any difference.

Bubbles

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 12:41:54 PM »
So presumably you also think it a good thing that Muslim women cover themselves in public? I don't see any difference.

The main difference is that by wearing it ( a turban) a Sikh woman is asserting her equality as a warrior, with a man. ( who already wears it).

When all Muslim men start wearing hijab, niquab and burka, then it will be equivalent.

It's like a woman in the west wearing trousers, and you claiming there is a parallel with female Muslim attire to cover up.

Men and women wear trousers in the uk, equally.

Well some Sikh women, like the men, wear a turban.

It's no more covering up than wearing trousers.

Can't you see?

The Muslim women dresses differently to a male Muslim, and much is made of it, the woman not having an equal role or status.

Some branches of Christianity are also a bit sniffy about the role of women and how they should be dressed and what they should be able to do.

A Sikh women can wear a turban just like a man to make a point. They are equal. Both can be warriors.


I wear trousers, it doesn't mean that because I have, I'm covered up like a Muslim.

Women in the uk, when they didn't have an equal place were not expected to wear trousers. (And not so long ago  a woman that wore exclusively trousers would have been labelled a lesbian, at least they were in the 1960's)

Hence the old joke, she wears the trousers! ( she is the boss)

In Sikhism both men and women can wear the turban

Not sure which bit you don't get tbh.

A woman being able to dress in the same manner as a man, is actually far more equal than one who isn't allowed.


Yes?

Sikhism is not Islam.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 02:43:59 PM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 02:32:32 PM »
Quote

Man is born from a woman; within woman, man is conceived; to a woman he is engaged and married. Man is friends with woman; through woman, the future generations exist. When his woman passes away, he seeks another woman; to a woman a man is bound. So why call her bad? From her, kings are born. From a woman, woman is born; without woman there would be no one at all" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 473).

The human body is transitory; the difference between man and woman is only transitory, and as such superficial. Thus, according to Sikh ideology, all men and women possess equal status. All human beings, regardless of gender, caste, race, or birth, are judged only by their deeds. With this assertion, the Sikh Gurus invited women to join the holy congregation, work with men in the Langar (common kitchen), and participate in all other religious, social, and cultural activities of the Gurdwara Sahib (Sikh Church). Sikh Gurus redefined marriage as wedded to one wife only and taught that male and female alike need to practice conjugal fidelity. The Gurus spoke against the practice of polygamy and preached to have only one wife. Guru Amar Das Ji, the third Guru, wrote:

"Only they are truly wedded who have one spirit in two bodies.”

Guru Amar Das Ji also condemned the wearing of the veil, and female infanticide. The steps Sikh Gurus took to advocate the equality of women revolutionized the tradition of Indian society. As women began to partake in social, religious, and political affairs, their contribution and worth as equal partners of men became more obvious. The Gurus taught that men and women are equal in the eyes of God, so are equal in rights on the Earth.


http://www.realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248311765&ucat=7


http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/rs/prejudice/sikhismrev3.shtml

Quote

1. What rights do I have as a Sikh woman?

A Sikh woman has equal rights to a Sikh man. No post in Sikhism is reserved solely for men. A woman is not considered subordinate to a man. Sikh baptism (Amrit ceremony) is open to both sexes. The Khalsa nation is made up equally of men and women. A Sikh woman has the right to become a Granthi, Ragi, one of the Panj Pyare (5 beloved), etc.

http://www.sikhwomen.com/equality/womansrights.htm







Imo Sikhism has more in its writings  about  equality  between men and women, than Christianity has in the bible.

It's a breath of fresh air tbh

Ok it's a bit outside my culture to tuck a book up in a double bed and treat it like a person, but I wouldn't fault them on the status of women and their equality to men.

It's not like Islam or Christianity, it really isn't.

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« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 02:41:42 PM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 02:55:39 PM »
This link is interesting because it explores where due to culture people who follow Sikhism don't always follow what the Gurus actually stood for. ( equality between the sexes)

http://www.thefword.org.uk/2010/04/sikhism_-_a_fem/

That's typically people though.

But Sikhism itself is very liberating IMO.

More than Christianity which has discriminatory comments in the NT, which have been used to beat any women into submission.

I don't see that sort of rubbish written by the Gurus.

 :)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 02:57:40 PM by Rose »

Brownie

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 01:31:02 PM »
I too believe Sikhism is refreshing.

When all Muslim men start wearing hijab, niquab and burka, then it will be equivalent.
No religion is equivalent to another but, in fairness, no woman has to wear a hijab, niquab or burka, it's a choice - an exception is Saudi Arabia but when Saudi women go outside their country, which is quite a lot as so many are extremely rich and own apartments here and on the continent, they are extremely fashionable!
Muslim men have to dress modestly and if they are religious, they will have a beard, wear a little hat and a long garment, making them somewhat anonymous.
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trippymonkey

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2016, 10:14:41 PM »
Muslim men have to dress modestly and if they are religious, they will have a beard, wear a little hat and a long garment, making them somewhat anonymous.

Never read any of this in Islam, sorry. Maybe in the Sayings Of The Prophet or The Hadith but much of it is considered unreliable !!!

Nick

Brownie

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Re: Sikh women and turbans
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2016, 01:11:42 AM »
A custom more than a religious obligation, Trippy.  In my view, taking the exhortation to "dress modestly" to extreme but there is a some of that in all faiths.   
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us