Can you have a spiritual experience without religion?

[Maeght]

But that's what I talked about earlier - the connection is seeing the same thing even though you know that every individual experience is unique. You mentioned a connection comes from sgsying information - watching a play or hearing a folk band play is just that.

So how is that being connected? Connected has a specific meaning doesn't it? A link, an exchange, not just watching the same thing.

[Rhiannon]

Dear Rhiannon,

Spiritual, connected ness, they are feelings but as Shaker points out we are all unique, so the joy we feel might be different but we all felt joy, in that one moment we all felt joy, that's the connection.

And on thinking, if you want to analyse it, we could have found lots of connections, the sound of the fiddle, the buzz in the pub, there would probably have been lots of feelings that we had in common.

I don't think I am saying anything controversial, if someone describes a moment of joy, others can relate, I have heard it so many times, "yes I know exactly what you are talking about".

Gonnagle.

No disagreement from me there, Gonners.

[Rhiannon]

So how is that being connected? Connected has a specific meaning doesn't it? A link, an exchange, not just watching the same thing.

See Gonners's post, he's put it far better than I could.

[Maeght]

Read it, and seems to me to be describing shared experiences rather than any connection between people.

[Rhiannon]

Read it, and seems to me to be describing shared experiences rather than any connection between people.

Ok, so what do you think is the difference?

[Shaker]

Dear Rhiannon,

Spiritual, connected ness, they are feelings but as Shaker points out we are all unique, so the joy we feel might be different but we all felt joy, in that one moment we all felt joy, that's the connection.

Hey, I think Turner's Norham Castle: Sunrise is ecstatic communion with the world I live in and glimpse occasionally for myself, and is God as far I understand the term. But what do I know

http://goo.gl/6a2f38

[Maeght]

Ok, so what do you think is the difference?

I've explained this in replies 66, 72 and 74.

[Rhiannon]

I've explained this in replies 66, 72 and 74.

Ok, but if you take just reply 66, Gonner's folk music experience was a sharing of information in the sense that everything we understand consists of information. Add to that the joy of being with friends and you have a connectedness of sharing.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Maeght,

So how is that being connected? Connected has a specific meaning doesn't it? A link, an exchange, not just watching the same thing.

There was a link, an exchange, a connection, sharing is connecting, sounds right to me.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Dear Maeght,

There was a link, an exchange, a connection, sharing is connecting, sounds right to me.

Gonnagle.

I'm not getting the difference either 

[Rhiannon]

Nor me.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Shaker,

Turner

The Fighting Temeraire, sad but beautiful at the same time actually ghostly beautiful, I know what I mean

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm with Maeght, the connectivity is the stretch to the noumenal, claiming that the stretch makes it true, doesn't for me.

[Rhiannon]

I love art, love music, but a pebble or a piece of moss covered wood is where I look to find 'god'. Or a snail shell, a puddle, snowdrops. The rows I've had on here about the fact I look at a sunset and see 'god'.

Trouble is I'm not sure what 'god' actually means to me these days.

[wigginhall]

I love art, love music, but a pebble or a piece of moss covered wood is where I look to find 'god'. Or a snail shell, a puddle, snowdrops. The rows I've had on here about the fact I look at a sunset and see 'god'.

Trouble is I'm not sure what 'god' actually means to me these days.

Yes, insects are my thang these days.  I can stare at hoverflies and shield bugs for ages.   I don't see it as spiritual or religious really, there's no need to classify it at all, that detracts from it.   

[Rhiannon]

Yes, insects are my thang these days.  I can stare at hoverflies and shield bugs for ages.   I don't see it as spiritual or religious really, there's no need to classify it at all, that detracts from it.

I don't want to narrow it down to this or that - if I can find it not far from my front door then it's my thing. Spiritual yes, just because it feeds my spirit. Religious? No.

Fennel's the thing to grow if you like hoverflies. But you probably know that.

[wigginhall]

There's a lot of stuff in Zen about emptiness, and when I stare at an insect, there is a kind of emptiness, which I like.   But then there is liking, which is not empty!

Our garden in Norfolk is full of hoverflies and bees.  In London, we get shield bugs, which start off green, and then turn bronze as the summer goes on.    True happiness. 

[Rhiannon]

I don't know if nature makes me feel empty - I would say it completes me. But then maybe I lose myself in it. No bad thing.

I love snails, if I find one I often let it sit on my hand for a bit so I can truly look. I'd make a rubbish allotment gardener.

[ekim]

Dear Maeght,

There was a link, an exchange, a connection, sharing is connecting, sounds right to me.

Gonnagle.

Electric light bulbs in the house are separate as bulbs, are connected and share the same power.  Some may shine more brightly than others, some may be switched off or disconnected from the power source.  Perhaps this analogy indicates the difference between religion which thinks in terms of duality e.g. the light bulb and its connection to the power source (God?), whereas spirituality seeks for unity e.g. I and the power are one (I am the way, the truth and the life?).  It is similar to two of the Vedanta schools of thought ... dvaita and advaita (twoism or not-twoism, that is the question).

[Hope]

Despite what many believers will tell you, religion has no monopoly on this and you certainly don't need to invoke the supernatural in order to have a spiritual experience.

When you experience feelings of awe, mystery, connection, gratitude, etc, you have a psychological state that satisfies the definition of spiritual.  No gods required.

I suppose it depends on what one understands by the terms 'spirit' and 'spirituality', Khat.  The top definition of spiritual (of 4) on www.oxforddictionaries.com is

Relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things:

(Only the 4th refers to religion, specifically)

For those for whom everything is material or physical, the very concept of the soul or spirit is a problem and hence the term 'spiritual'.

[Rhiannon]

That's not entirely accurate, Hope. I use 'spirit' or 'soul' interchangeably to mean 'inner person' - the things that make us who we are - and 'spirituality' as the practice of nurturing that. But I don't have a belief that it exists outside of the physical or exists after death. It's possible, but it seems unlikely.

[Shaker]

For those for whom everything is material or physical, the very concept of the soul or spirit is a problem and hence the term 'spiritual'.

Not if you define those words in your own way.

[Leonard James]

What exactly do you mean by 'spiritual', Hope?

[Shaker]

I don't know if nature makes me feel empty - I would say it completes me. But then maybe I lose myself in it. No bad thing.

I love snails, if I find one I often let it sit on my hand for a bit so I can truly look. I'd make a rubbish allotment gardener.

Snail lover here too. A walk after rain (which brings snails out in force) always takes me twice as long as I keep stopping to pick them off the pavement to put them somewhere they won't be trodden on. Worms too.

[Rhiannon]

Snail lover here too. A walk after rain (which brings snails out in force) always takes me twice as long as I keep stopping to pick them off the pavement to put them somewhere they won't be trodden on. Worms too.

I'm exactly the same. I can't tell you how awful I feel if I accidentally hurt a worm while turning a border.