Can you have a spiritual experience without religion?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I could be persuadable ...

I have been creative with my writing on this board and am constantly vilified for it.
What will be different?

[Shaker]

I have been creative with my writing on this board and am constantly vilified for it.

Creative only in the same sense that chimps are creative with their faeces though, Vlad

Visually impressive to look at, but you don't want to get too close to it.

[Rhiannon]

I have been creative with my writing on this board and am constantly vilified for it.
What will be different?

Vlad, 'creative writing' isn't synonymous with 'lying'.

[SweetPea]

Dear Wigs,

Yes, you stop thinking about yourself, you become focused on the subject, all the mundane flies away, caught in the moment, but then does that mean the lose of a love one is not spiritual.

Gonnagle.

Yes, I had an intensely spiritual experience when my older brother died. For just a few moments I felt I was him.... had become him. But also, at some point, as a passenger in a car, I was watching the passing countryside; it is always beautiful but this time seemed to hold an extreme beauty; very difficult to put into words. This lasted for maybe 30 minutes  then faded. I experienced too a closeness to God, a sense that I was being held and carried.... this gave great comfort.   

I think spirituality contains many categories and, yes, means something different to all of us. For me quietness and stillness is essential.... the peace is like manna. It is as a fountain from which one can drink.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I have written about spirituality and how it is different from religions many times. 

For example in Hindu tradition, Yoga, meditations, breathing exercises etc. are spiritual practices but they are secular. Praying at temples, following certain rituals, adopting certain lifestyles are religious practices which have a spiritual component but which also have social relevance and can be just beliefs and following of ancient traditions.

Spirituality is about self development and attempting to identify ones spiritual core. Religions also aim at spiritual development but more indirectly.  They can involve religious teachers, texts, rituals, gods and many other practices of social and cultural relevance.

To put it simply, the attempt to move away from animal tendencies towards those aspects that are more human.... is 'spiritual'. Humanism is spiritual, vegetarianism is spiritual, animal welfare is spiritual, arts and appreciation of beauty is spiritual, charity and selflessness is spiritual, doing ones duties without self importance is spiritual.....and many more such things.

All these are 'spiritual' because they represent a part of us that has moved away from the animal. They represent a more civilized and a more evolved aspect of us. 

Cheers.

Sriram

Ps: Even 'science' can be spiritual....without its self importance.

[Leonard James]

Hi everyone,

I have written about spirituality and how it is different from religions many times. 

For example in Hindu tradition, Yoga, meditations, breathing exercises etc. are spiritual practices but they are secular. Praying at temples, following certain rituals, adopting certain lifestyles are religious practices which have a spiritual component but which also have social relevance and can be just beliefs and following of ancient traditions.

Spirituality is about self development and attempting to identify ones spiritual core. Religions also aim at spiritual development but more indirectly.  They can involve religious teachers, texts, rituals, gods and many other practices of social and cultural relevance.

To put it simply, the attempt to move away from animal tendencies towards those aspects that are more human.... is 'spiritual'. Humanism is spiritual, vegetarianism is spiritual, animal welfare is spiritual, arts and appreciation of beauty is spiritual, charity and selflessness is spiritual, doing ones duties without self importance is spiritual.....and many more such things.

All these are 'spiritual' because they represent a part of us that has moved away from the animal. They represent a more civilized and a more evolved aspect of us. 

Cheers.

Sriram

Ps: Even 'science' can be spiritual....without its self importance.

I go along with most of this, Sriram, but would like to point out that spirituality has no absolute definition; it is entirely relevant to the individual. Religion has some spiritual edicts, the most important of which is love your neighbour, but it also embraces much juvenile nonsense,

[Sriram]

I go along with most of this, Sriram, but would like to point out that spirituality has no absolute definition; it is entirely relevant to the individual. Religion has some spiritual edicts, the most important of which is love your neighbour, but it also embraces much juvenile nonsense,

Len,

In Hinduism, we have always been taught that we have two parts within us, the Animal and the Divine. This is common knowledge even in popular culture.  We are expected to slowly eliminate the first and increase the second.

But doing this directly is not easy for everyone. That is why other practices such as prayer, rituals and correct social behaviour and so on are prescribed for most people.

[Leonard James]

Len,

In Hinduism, we have always been taught that we have two parts within us, the Animal and the Divine. This is common knowledge even in popular culture.  We were expected to slowly eliminate the first and increase the second.

But doing this directly is not easy for everyone. That is why other practices such as prayer, rituals and correct social behaviour and so on are prescribed for most people.

As long as that doesn't necessitate believing in 'gods' I have no argument.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad, 'creative writing' isn't synonymous with 'lying'.

About what?

[Sriram]

As long as that doesn't necessitate believing in 'gods' I have no argument.

Believing in gods is a natural and important part of being human. Its important for the spiritual development of most people.  Without gods there is no sense of authority. 

A child for example cannot be expected to understand and regulate its behaviour based on self control. It needs some form of an authority which it can obey (often out of fear).   That's the way most humans are. This cannot be wished away.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Believing in gods is a natural and important part of being human. Its important for the spiritual development of most people.  Without gods there is no sense of authority. 

A child for example cannot be expected to understand and regulate its behaviour based on self control. It needs some form of an authority which it can obey (often out of fear).   That's the way most humans are. This cannot be wished away.

But I'm afraid in the west too many prefer the caricatures and dislike authority figures and people they consider as spoilsports.

In the west people tal of belief as childish and then accumulate as many toys  as they can.

[Sriram]

But I'm afraid in the west too many prefer the caricatures and dislike authority figures and people they consider as spoilsports.

In the west people tal of belief as childish and then accumulate as many toys  as they can.

That's how society often gets degenerated. When people  become too clever for their own good and believe they don't need any teachers and any authority.

When fear and respect go away too early in a child...it gets spoilt. 

[Leonard James]

Believing in gods is a natural and important part of being human. Its important for the spiritual development of most people.  Without gods there is no sense of authority. 

A child for example cannot be expected to understand and regulate its behaviour based on self control. It needs some form of an authority which it can obey (often out of fear).   That's the way most humans are. This cannot be wished away.

Children are genetically inclined to follow the instructions of their parents, and should not be misled into belief in gods before they are old enough to reason and think for themselves.

[Sriram]

Children are genetically inclined to follow the instructions of their parents, and should not be misled into belief in gods before they are old enough to reason and think for themselves.

Ha Ha. You just don't get what I am trying to say....do you?! Never mind.

[Leonard James]

Ha Ha. You just don't get what I am trying to say....do you?! Never mind.

Possibly not ... but on the other hand you may not be explaining yourself very clearly. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That's how society often gets degenerated. When people  become too clever for their own good and believe they don't need any teachers and any authority.

When fear and respect go away too early in a child...it gets spoilt.

There is a phenomenon and culture of having a laugh........but question that and see how fast cynical smirks turn nasty.

[Sriram]

There is a phenomenon and culture of having a laugh........but question that and see how fast cynical smirks turn nasty.

I believe it is the  second stage of adolescence that most people in society are going through. It means skepticism, cynicism, self importance etc.  It won't last long.

[Khatru]

Anyone remember Carl Sagan and his TV series "Cosmos"?

Initially broadcast back in 1980, I guess it may be a bit creaky round the edges now.

Yet, back then, the way Sagan put it across was, at times, pretty spiritual.  It certainly registered deeply with me and has stayed with me in a way that few documentary series have.

Who'd have thought I could get that connection from a TV show.

[Sriram]

Possibly not ... but on the other hand you may not be explaining yourself very clearly. 

You just have to think of many humans as being in the child stage (mentally and emotionally...not physically). Religions just provide what they need.

[Leonard James]

You just have to think of many humans as being in the child stage (mentally and emotionally...not physically). Religions just provide what they need.

That is rather condescending, and I don't think it's true. Such people, if they had not been misled in their childhood, would be perfectly capable of thinking as adults..

[Sriram]

That is rather condescending, and I don't think it's true. Such people, if they had not been misled in their childhood, would be perfectly capable of thinking as adults..

Ok....

[Gordon]

You just have to think of many humans as being in the child stage (mentally and emotionally...not physically). Religions just provide what they need.

If you are correct about religions appealing to adults who are child-like mentally and emotionally then perhaps religion could be seen as being equivalent to other stuff targeted at child-like thinking: a version of 'Topsy and Tim go Shopping with Mummy', but with superstitious overtones and some miracles thrown in for good measure.

 

[torridon]

You just have to think of many humans as being in the child stage (mentally and emotionally...not physically)....

which recognises the neotenous nature of H. Sapiens. We are the ape that never grows up, we remain in extended childhood throughout our lives.

[Leonard James]

which recognises the neotenous nature of H. Sapiens. We are the ape that never grows up, we remain in extended childhood throughout our lives.

That would account for my occasional bouts of childish humour! 

[Hope]

That is rather condescending, and I don't think it's true. Such people, if they had not been misled in their childhood, would be perfectly capable of thinking as adults..

And this post is no less condescending, Len.  There are many highly intelligent people who couldn't be described as " ... being in the child stage (mentally and emotionally...not physically)....", who have a religious faith.  The fact that some of them have been brought up in non-religious families, and others have rejected faith in their youth only to return to it later in life, indicates that the comment 'misled in their childhood, would be perfectly capable of thinking as adults' is somewhat moot.