Resurrection

[john]

Our old friend Hope raised the subject of resurrection in the Dawkins thread. It got me thinking again about one of the many aspects of Christian faith which cause me trouble:

So, if you've been good, when you die you go to live forever in a happy place with Jesus, so the idea goes.

An old man with severe arthritic pain who lived a good life dies and is resurrected, does his pain continue in heaven, it was part of what he became?

An old woman who was born deaf dies. Will she be deaf in heaven?

A baby dies in childbirth and never did anything wrong and is resurrected. Will it remain a baby in heaven? And who will look after it and change it's nappies till mom gets there 50 years later?

As a result of of a battlefield injury a soldier has his legs and arms blown off and his torso damaged, medics fight to save him but after a month or so he succumbs to result of his massive trauma and dies. When resurrected will he get his arms and legs back?

A devoted young married Christian couple are separated at 25 years old when he dies in a train crash. She lives on Forever faithful to her husbands memory and dies aged 96 suffering with severe Alzheimer's disease. When resurrected will she recognized her ex hubby? Will he still find this 96 year old woman attractive?

To me there is so much about the concept of resurrection that just doesn't make any kind of sense.

Discuss please!!!!
 
 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Our old friend Hope raised the subject of resurrection in the Dawkins thread. It got me thinking again about one of the many aspects of Christian faith which cause me trouble:

So, if you've been good, when you die you go to live forever in a happy place with Jesus, so the idea goes.

An old man with severe arthritic pain who lived a good life dies and is resurrected, does his pain continue in heaven, it was part of what he became?

An old woman who was born deaf dies. Will she be deaf in heaven?

A baby dies in childbirth and never did anything wrong and is resurrected. Will it remain a baby in heaven? And who will look after it and change it's nappies till mom gets there 50 years later?

As a result of of a battlefield injury a soldier has his legs and arms blown off and his torso damaged, medics fight to save him but after a month or so he succumbs to result of his massive trauma and dies. When resurrected will he get his arms and legs back?

A devoted young married Christian couple are separated at 25 years old when he dies in a train crash. She lives on Forever faithful to her husbands memory and dies aged 96 suffering with severe Alzheimer's disease. When resurrected will she recognized her ex hubby? Will he still find this 96 year old woman attractive?

To me there is so much about the concept of resurrection that just doesn't make any kind of sense.

Discuss please!!!!
 
 

1 Corinthians 15:43-44 provides the very answer to your question.

[ekim]

If this saying of Jesus is anything to go by, it is possibly a spiritual abode rather than physical.
"Your body is made from earthly elements but if you lose your valuable inner essence how will you replenish it? Then of what good are you but to be returned to the earth to be trodden under foot."

[floo]

Our old friend Hope raised the subject of resurrection in the Dawkins thread. It got me thinking again about one of the many aspects of Christian faith which cause me trouble:

So, if you've been good, when you die you go to live forever in a happy place with Jesus, so the idea goes.

An old man with severe arthritic pain who lived a good life dies and is resurrected, does his pain continue in heaven, it was part of what he became?

An old woman who was born deaf dies. Will she be deaf in heaven?

A baby dies in childbirth and never did anything wrong and is resurrected. Will it remain a baby in heaven? And who will look after it and change it's nappies till mom gets there 50 years later?

As a result of of a battlefield injury a soldier has his legs and arms blown off and his torso damaged, medics fight to save him but after a month or so he succumbs to result of his massive trauma and dies. When resurrected will he get his arms and legs back?

A devoted young married Christian couple are separated at 25 years old when he dies in a train crash. She lives on Forever faithful to her husbands memory and dies aged 96 suffering with severe Alzheimer's disease. When resurrected will she recognized her ex hubby? Will he still find this 96 year old woman attractive?

To me there is so much about the concept of resurrection that just doesn't make any kind of sense.

Discuss please!!!!
 
 

Surely it is the notion that only those who get 'saved', however bad they are, will go to heaven, whilst the good 'unsaved' will go to hell, which is very nasty?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Surely it is the notion that only those who get 'saved', however bad they are, will go to heaven, whilst the good 'unsaved' will go to hell, which is very nasty?

Christianity doesn't talk about the good unsaved though does it?

[Shaker]

1 Corinthians 15:43-44 provides the very answer to your question.

You have a different definition of 'answer' to the rest of us, one that runs "Bald, unsubstantiated assertions in an ancient text" instead of "A rational explanation founded on evidence."

[Rhiannon]

Christianity doesn't talk about the good unsaved though does it?

No, but it is clear that in order to be saved you need to have belief- churches and individuals who don't believe that go against what the Bible teaches. So it's apparent that there are good, unsaved people.

[Nearly Sane]

You have a different definition of 'answer' to the rest of us, one that runs "Bald, unsubstantiated assertions in an ancient text" instead of "A rational explanation founded on evidence."

Surely though here it is merely an expression of belief of what will happen that was asked for Vlad pointed in direction of statement that it won't be physical bodies, so the question in the OP as regards those is addressed. It didn't ask for evidence.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You have a different definition of 'answer' to the rest of us, one that runs "Bald, unsubstantiated assertions in an ancient text" instead of "A rational explanation founded on evidence."

I'm afraid John had entered into the premise of resurrection and asked pertinent rational questions based on that premise and received a rational statement based on that premise. Wobble dibble would have been an irrational reply, I'm not sure whether replying as you did that the answer is meaningless in your held belief was exactly rational.

What is irrational about a spiritual body.It can't be falsified that is all.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, but it is clear that in order to be saved you need to have belief- churches and individuals who don't believe that go against what the Bible teaches. So it's apparent that there are good, unsaved people.

I don't see that that is true at all. If you believe in moral non realism no one is good or bad.

[Rhiannon]

I don't see that that is true at all. If you believe in moral non realism no one is good or bad.

Was Jesus into that then?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Was Jesus into that then?

Beg pardon.

[john]

So the resurrected person will be a spiritual rather than a physical thing.

OK but.......

The person resurrected's spirit will be based upon its life experience. So how will the resurrected spirit of say a dead newly born child sit alongside that of a one who lived a full life and died aged 90?

I still cannot see how anyone can give any mileage to this concept. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So the resurrected person will be a spiritual rather than a physical thing.

OK but.......

The person resurrected's spirit will be based upon its life experience. So how will the resurrected spirit of say a dead newly born child sit alongside that of a one who lived a full life and died aged 90?

I still cannot see how anyone can give any mileage to this concept.

CS Lewis reckoned that everyone will be looking forward rather than backward

[Shaker]

As though he'd know.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As though he'd know.

Well I think he surmised that the encounter with God is so wonderful that that would be the case.

[wigginhall]

I don't see that that is true at all. If you believe in moral non realism no one is good or bad.

But Christians are not moral non-realists, are they?  They do believe that some people are saved, and some not saved, unless you are a universalist. 

Who then is saved? 

[Gonnagle]

Dear John,

It got me thinking again about one of the many aspects of Christian faith which cause me trouble:

Does it keep you awake at night, all this nonsense we Christians chunter on about

I think Vlads quote from Corinthians was spot on but when I think about the afterlife, which is not very often, to busy with the here and now, I think about the Holy Trinity, we just become part of the whole, saying that I quite like the Pagan idea of Summerland or what about reincarnation, now I do think quite a lot about reincarnation, what would I like to be reincarnated as, a bird of the air is my favourite, but knowing my luck I would probably come back as a George Square flea ridden Doo with one leg, being constantly chased by some snot nosed kid as I try to enjoy a thrown away Greggs sausage roll

Gonnagle.

[john]

Gonners (a poster who seems more sensible than most) asked me.....

Does it keep you awake at night, all this nonsense we Christians chunter on about

Well frankly yes. In earlier times in one way, currently in another.

I was brought up as a regular CofE attender and sang in the choir till my mid teens and was a believer. Then a couple of things happened to make me rethink my beliefs, my father died aged only 46 and I started to study science seriously for work. The dichotomy between my beliefs and my science/logic studies was a problem as was gods unfairness at taking my dad before I ever really got to know him, I was a schoolboy when he died. Also there was the awful feelings of guilt I had imaging my Dad watching and tut tutting at me from heaven at my every misdeed....some 60 years later I still feel a bit of this guilt. My church teachings planted that guilt on me. So these aspects kept me awake.

Later in life/currently "the nonsense" still causes "Sleeplessness" when I ask a question like my OP I expect to hear some sort of consistent answer from Christians but I get instead a wide variety of totally different answers, some waffle, some insane ramblings, some who can know the mind of god replies, etc. You guys have had over 2000 years to figure this stuff out and still you haven't got anything sensible/logical in the way of an explanation.

And still you infest the minds of the young with these harmful beliefs.

Yep it keeps me awake, thinking about it. 

[Leonard James]

Gonners (a poster who seems more sensible than most) asked me.....

Does it keep you awake at night, all this nonsense we Christians chunter on about

Well frankly yes. In earlier times in one way, currently in another.

I was brought up as a regular CofE attender and sang in the choir till my mid teens and was a believer. Then a couple of things happened to make me rethink my beliefs, my father died aged only 46 and I started to study science seriously for work. The dichotomy between my beliefs and my science/logic studies was a problem as was gods unfairness at taking my dad before I ever really got to know him, I was a schoolboy when he died. Also there was the awful feelings of guilt I had imaging my Dad watching and tut tutting at me from heaven at my every misdeed....some 60 years later I still feel a bit of this guilt. My church teachings planted that guilt on me. So these aspects kept me awake.

Later in life/currently "the nonsense" still causes "Sleeplessness" when I ask a question like my OP I expect to hear some sort of consistent answer from Christians but I get instead a wide variety of totally different answers, some waffle, some insane ramblings, some who can know the mind of god replies, etc. You guys have had over 2000 years to figure this stuff out and still you have got anything sensible/logical in the way of an explanation.

And still you infest the minds of the young with these harmful beliefs.

Yep it keeps me awake, thinking about it.

I'm sorry to hear that, John. I went through virtually the same process of development as you, and I, too, decry this addling of young minds with religious rubbish.

But I have supreme confidence that as time passes and we accumulate more and more knowledge of the way things are, religion will be relegated to its proper place ... mythical studies.

Knowing that I am doing my share of fighting against religious conditioning of the young allows me to sleep well. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Gonners (a poster who seems more sensible than most) asked me.....

Does it keep you awake at night, all this nonsense we Christians chunter on about

Well frankly yes. In earlier times in one way, currently in another.

I was brought up as a regular CofE attender and sang in the choir till my mid teens and was a believer. Then a couple of things happened to make me rethink my beliefs, my father died aged only 46 and I started to study science seriously for work. The dichotomy between my beliefs and my science/logic studies

What branch of lscience deals with spiritual bodies.

[Khatru]

1 Corinthians 15:43-44 provides the very answer to your question.

1 Corinthiams 15:43-44 !!??

"All men wishing to enter the assembly of the Lord must first queue here to have their genitals inspected in order to ensure nothing is broken or missing.  Missing foreskins are OK"?

Sorry.  I've been watching Ref Dwarf again.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

1 Corinthiams 15:43-44 !!??

"All men wishing to enter the assembly of the Lord must first queue here to have their genitals inspected in order to ensure nothing is broken or missing.  Missing foreskins are OK"?

Sorry.  I've been watching Ref Dwarf again.

If you are going to quote Red Dwarf at least quote from one of the better series not the crap ones.

[john]

Huge anus

To help with your query I suggest you read some actual science books.

It may help you to start with the ones published by LADYBIRD.

[Gonnagle]

Dear John,

I don't know if you read many of my posts, but I will say this, I will gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with anybody to stop our children having their minds infested by harmful beliefs, but I don't see a willing commitment for this, give the kids the facts, the good, bad, and the downright ugly and let them decide.

I see to much of a them and us attitude, theist and atheist at each others throats instead of sitting down and looking for a way forward, religion is not going away, no matter which statistics you look at, and as this little world shrink we see lots of other religions in the mix.

What I do see is a concerted effort by groups such as the BHS and the NSS to show that religion has no relevance, you can be lovely person without religion ( which I don't doubt ) but I don't see a concerted effort to give us a replacement, kids from an early age must be taught right from wrong, Ethics and Morals need to take centre stage, it is far more important than Maths and English.

Kids can learn a lot about living a more fulfilling life by studying all world religions, all world philosophies, atheist and theist need to sit down and talk this through for the sake of future generations.

To end my little rant John, I am here willing and able to talk about a way forward but if all I hear is, it just a load of rubbish then we do the kids an injustice.

Gonnagle.

PS: Don't call me sensible, it does my street cred no good.