Resurrection

[SweetPea]

1 Corinthians 15:43-44 provides the very answer to your question.

John..... Vlad, has it in one, here. This is all you need. But it's also where faith and trust come in; and that is something you can only find yourself.... if and when you are ready.

[Sassy]

Our old friend Hope raised the subject of resurrection in the Dawkins thread. It got me thinking again about one of the many aspects of Christian faith which cause me trouble:

So, if you've been good, when you die you go to live forever in a happy place with Jesus, so the idea goes.

An old man with severe arthritic pain who lived a good life dies and is resurrected, does his pain continue in heaven, it was part of what he became?

An old woman who was born deaf dies. Will she be deaf in heaven?

A baby dies in childbirth and never did anything wrong and is resurrected. Will it remain a baby in heaven? And who will look after it and change it's nappies till mom gets there 50 years later?

As a result of of a battlefield injury a soldier has his legs and arms blown off and his torso damaged, medics fight to save him but after a month or so he succumbs to result of his massive trauma and dies. When resurrected will he get his arms and legs back?

A devoted young married Christian couple are separated at 25 years old when he dies in a train crash. She lives on Forever faithful to her husbands memory and dies aged 96 suffering with severe Alzheimer's disease. When resurrected will she recognized her ex hubby? Will he still find this 96 year old woman attractive?

To me there is so much about the concept of resurrection that just doesn't make any kind of sense.

Discuss please!!!!
 
 

There is no sickness or pain in heaven.

Revelation 21:4.
King James Bible
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Watch the film.

Babies grow in heaven.
And people become young again not children but young adults.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1929263/

God loves us and wants us free from all that harms or hurts us.

[Shaker]

God loves us and wants us free from all that harms or hurts us.

That's omnibenevolence taken care of.

An omniscient god would know how to bring about this state of affairs (moreover while sentient creatures are still alive, not after their deaths, where - very conveniently for those who make assertions such as these - it's somewhat difficult to ascertain the truth of the claim); an omnipotent god would be able to bring about this state of affairs; this state of affairs doesn't exist.

So you have a variety of options as to why this state of affairs does not exist. Let's see if you can work out what they are.

[floo]

There is no sickness or pain in heaven.

Revelation 21:4.
King James Bible
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Watch the film.

Babies grow in heaven.
And people become young again not children but young adults.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1929263/

God loves us and wants us free from all that harms or hurts us.

The Bible gives the lie to that silly statement!

[john]

Jack Knave

Silly statement, it should be obvious that I am not a Christian (anymore), either half in or half out. I EVOLVED.

I consider the bible to be as an important a tale (but little more important) than others like; King Arthur, Robin Hood, Star Trek, etc.

I do not believe in god/s furthermore I think that belief in god is harmful to modern humans, useful as an evolutionary tool though it might once have been. Humanity too has EVOLVED. Well most of us have!

[john]

So the resurrected will be born anew, as if babies. Presumably therefore with no memories to even out any difference between a 90 year old, who lived a full Christian life and an infant who died in child birth.

Let’s examine the consequences of this idea.

The resurrected will be pure spirit unable to feel pain, sadness, etc. This scuppers the idea that they will consider heaven a reward for a life lived by the example of Christ. The sprit will simply be unaware of what happened before it’s death. It also scuppers the idea (oft suggested by Cof E vicars at least) that the resurrected will be reunited with their pre deceased loved ones, they simply won’t remember each other.

The resurrected will have no memorys. Can they create new ones If they are unable to feel pain, sadness, etc.? And if they have no physical body to experience touch, make noise, hear sound etc. What will they have to build their new memories on?

It doesn’t seem to me that there would be much advantage to being in heaven.

W.T.F.P.

You would be better off going to Hell, perhaps there you could keep your memory to understand why you are being punished and your ability to feel as well too, so you can feel the heat!!! If they cannot again W.T.F.P.

And these are the terrors we put into the minds of young Christian children to control them!.

[ekim]

So the resurrected will be born anew, as if babies. Presumably therefore with no memories to even out any difference between a 90 year old, who lived a full Christian life and an infant who died in child birth.

Let’s examine the consequences of this idea.

The resurrected will be pure spirit unable to feel pain, sadness, etc. This scuppers the idea that they will consider heaven a reward for a life lived by the example of Christ. The sprit will simply be unaware of what happened before it’s death. It also scuppers the idea (oft suggested by Cof E vicars at least) that the resurrected will be reunited with their pre deceased loved ones, they simply won’t remember each other.

The resurrected will have no memorys. Can they create new ones If they are unable to feel pain, sadness, etc.? And if they have no physical body to experience touch, make noise, hear sound etc. What will they have to build their new memories on?

It doesn’t seem to me that there would be much advantage to being in heaven.

W.T.F.P.

You would be better off going to Hell, perhaps there you could keep your memory to understand why you are being punished and your ability to feel as well too, so you can feel the heat!!! If they cannot again W.T.F.P.

And these are the terrors we put into the minds of young Christian children to control them!.

The mystic might see it differently, not so much born anew but more dropping the old, which is past oriented, and the imagined, which is future oriented, and remaining consciously present in a 'heavenly' blissful state which is within everybody.  The idea is to 'seek first the kingdom of heaven' i.e. now, rather than hope for a resurrection after the body dies.

[Jack Knave]

Jack Knave

Silly statement, it should be obvious that I am not a Christian (anymore), either half in or half out. I EVOLVED.

I consider the bible to be as an important a tale (but little more important) than others like; King Arthur, Robin Hood, Star Trek, etc.

I do not believe in god/s furthermore I think that belief in god is harmful to modern humans, useful as an evolutionary tool though it might once have been. Humanity too has EVOLVED. Well most of us have!

If that is the case why do these things keep you awake at night then, and grieve you so, if they are as you say above?

[ippy]

Our old friend Hope raised the subject of resurrection in the Dawkins thread. It got me thinking again about one of the many aspects of Christian faith which cause me trouble:

So, if you've been good, when you die you go to live forever in a happy place with Jesus, so the idea goes.

An old man with severe arthritic pain who lived a good life dies and is resurrected, does his pain continue in heaven, it was part of what he became?

An old woman who was born deaf dies. Will she be deaf in heaven?

A baby dies in childbirth and never did anything wrong and is resurrected. Will it remain a baby in heaven? And who will look after it and change it's nappies till mom gets there 50 years later?

As a result of of a battlefield injury a soldier has his legs and arms blown off and his torso damaged, medics fight to save him but after a month or so he succumbs to result of his massive trauma and dies. When resurrected will he get his arms and legs back?

A devoted young married Christian couple are separated at 25 years old when he dies in a train crash. She lives on Forever faithful to her husbands memory and dies aged 96 suffering with severe Alzheimer's disease. When resurrected will she recognized her ex hubby? Will he still find this 96 year old woman attractive?

To me there is so much about the concept of resurrection that just doesn't make any kind of sense.

Discuss please!!!!
 
 

An old man with severe arthritic pain who lived a good life dies and is resurrected, does his pain continue in heaven, it was part of what he became?

Yes if Hope were there too.

It might be a different type of pain.

ippy

[ippy]

Thank you, Gordon! Synthetic Dave (do you know, I've only just realised that he has the same initials as me!!!) is happy now.

Shouldn't it be Sympathetic Dave, you'd still have the initials in place Susan.

ippy

[SusanDoris]

The only trouble is that 'sympathetic' has four syllables which means it would take a fraction of a second longer to say each time!!

[john]

Jack Knave asks

If that is the case why do these things keep you awake at night then, and grieve you so, if they are as you say above?

Because I dislike cruelty to children.

I do not want to see human development held back.

And I want to remove at least one of the causes of human conflict.

[Jack Knave]

Jack Knave asks

If that is the case why do these things keep you awake at night then, and grieve you so, if they are as you say above?

Because I dislike cruelty to children.

I do not want to see human development held back.

And I want to remove at least one of the causes of human conflict.

What has that got to do with going to heaven if you don't believe in it? It is a superfluous consideration.

[Leonard James]

What has that got to do with going to heaven if you don't believe in it? It is a superfluous consideration.

Going to "heaven" is a self-centred wish. Harming children is an immoral and worrying action.

[john]

Going to "heaven" is a self-centred wish. Harming children is an immoral and worrying action.

Self centered wish it may be but teaching children to live their lives in fear of that wish, with all the guilt and repression that entails. Without any credible evidence to support the imposition of those beliefs.... adds up to child cruelty.

[Khatru]

There is no sickness or pain in heaven.

Revelation 21:4.
King James Bible
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



.


God loves us and wants us free from all that harms or hurts us.

Such a shame he couldn't have just started with heaven instead of putting humanity through such pain

[Khatru]

Yet back in the day, resurrections were no big deal in the ancient Middle East.

The Bible itself tells us how the following individuals all came back to life after they'd died:

1.  Widow of Zarephath's son
2.  Shunamite's son
3.  Man tossed into Elisha's tomb
4.  Widow of Nain's son
5.  Jairus' daughter
6.  Lazarus
7.  Tabitha
8.  Eutychus

Not forgetting the hundreds (maybe thousands) who zombie-walked their way into Jerusalem.

Of course it wasn't just the Middle East where people came back from the dead but all over the ancient world.  Some of these include:

Quetzalcoatl
Ishtar
Osiris
Adonis
Dionysus
Persephone
Tammuz
Baal
Attis
Lemminkainen
Odin
Ganesha
Krishna

So there you have it, returning from the grave used to be much more commonplace than people think.
 
Strange how all these resurrections, occurred in a time when humans were deeply superstitious and since the advent of science we haven't reliably recorded any instances of people being resurrected after death.  This is so much the case that it's only the deeply superstitious who still cling to the ancient myths.

[Leonard James]

Yet back in the day, resurrections were no big deal in the ancient Middle East.

The Bible itself tells us how the following individuals all came back to life after they'd died:

1.  Widow of Zarephath's son
2.  Shunamite's son
3.  Man tossed into Elisha's tomb
4.  Widow of Nain's son
5.  Jairus' daughter
6.  Lazarus
7.  Tabitha
8.  Eutychus

Not forgetting the hundreds (maybe thousands) who zombie-walked their way into Jerusalem.

Of course it wasn't just the Middle East where people came back from the dead but all over the ancient world.  Some of these include:

Quetzalcoatl
Ishtar
Osiris
Adonis
Dionysus
Persephone
Tammuz
Baal
Attis
Lemminkainen
Odin
Ganesha
Krishna

So there you have it, returning from the grave used to be much more commonplace than people think.
 
Strange how all these resurrections, occurred in a time when humans were deeply superstitious and since the advent of science we haven't reliably recorded any instances of people being resurrected after death.  This is so much the case that it's only the deeply superstitious who still cling to the ancient myths.

Good work, Khatru.

[Jack Knave]

Going to "heaven" is a self-centred wish. Harming children is an immoral and worrying action.

But his OP has nothing to do about harming children, as wondering how children are going to be judged on Judgement Day by God when he doesn't believe in all that twaddle. 

[Jack Knave]

Self centered wish it may be but teaching children to live their lives in fear of that wish, with all the guilt and repression that entails. Without any credible evidence to support the imposition of those beliefs.... adds up to child cruelty.

But that is not what your OP said or what I'm referring to, which is your comment about how a baby will be judged compared to an old person of 90 who has had to endure and live through life's trials and pressures......and which you said kept you awake at night.

[Jack Knave]

There is no sickness or pain in heaven.

Revelation 21:4.
King James Bible
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Watch the film.

Babies grow in heaven.
And people become young again not children but young adults.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1929263/

God loves us and wants us free from all that harms or hurts us.

So why did It put us here in the first place then?

[Ricky Spanish]

If this saying of Jesus is anything to go by, it is possibly a spiritual abode rather than physical.
"Your body is made from earthly elements but if you lose your valuable inner essence how will you replenish it? Then of what good are you but to be returned to the earth to be trodden under foot."

Where did jesus say this?

[Ricky Spanish]

1 Corinthians 15:43-44 provides the very answer to your question.

Well it doesn't really...  all it states is Pauls musings on the subject but that doesn't mean it is the right answer.

[Leonard James]

Well it doesn't really...  all it states is Pauls musings on the subject but that doesn't mean it is the right answer.

Too true! And the same applies to the writers of the Bible.

[ekim]

Where did jesus say this?

A paraphrase of Matt 5:13.