Resurrection

[Walt Zingmatilder]

At school our RE teacher said eternal life was God's gift to us, but now you are telling me that you have to train and go through selection trials to get it.

Will you Christians pleas make up your minds about what your religion actually teaches.

I have a relative who refuses to open gifts from family he has fallen out with. He won't throw them away but they remain unopened.

[floo]

I have a relative who refuses to open gifts from family he has fallen out with. He won't throw them away but they remain unopened.

Maybe like the deity's so called 'gift' they think they are a poison chalice!

[Ricky Spanish]

I have a relative who refuses to open gifts from family he has fallen out with. He won't throw them away but they remain unopened.

Really? I call bullshit.  Why the fuck would "he" keep shit he's not interested in?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Really? I call bullshit.  Why the fuck would "he" keep shit he's not interested in?

I think it's called hoarding.

[SusanDoris]

In the 1940s, Kathleen Kennedy (called 'Kit' or 'Kick' - I cannot hear it properly) married the Marquis of Huntington,. They had wanted to marry five years previously, but the Kennedys, particularly Rose Kennedy, were implacably against it  because of religion. Apparently Rose never changed her mind. Five weeks after the marriage,  Kit was widowed and had not become pregnant. So that particular aspect of religious belief denied her five years of happiness.

(I'm listening to 'The Mitford Girls' by Mary S Lovell - an excellent book.)

[Ricky Spanish]

Ahh so this "he" would be you then?

[Shaker]

In the 1940s, Kathleen Kennedy (called 'Kit' or 'Kick' - I cannot hear it properly) married the Marquis of Huntington,. They had wanted to marry five years previously, but the Kennedys, particularly Rose Kennedy, were implacably against it  because of religion. Apparently Rose never changed her mind. Five weeks after the marriage,  Kit was widowed and had not become pregnant. So that particular aspect of religious belief denied her five years of happiness.

Yes, it tends to do that. The recent "John Paul II" thread refers to a relationship that the former Pope of that moniker had with a woman, which gave rise to a mention of the Catholic monk Thomas Merton and his nearly/maybe/might be/not quite relationship with a nurse, which he desperately wanted but broke off because of his attachment to his vows of (amongst other things) chastity. In other words, he put dogma and ideology ahead of what most normally-constituted people regard as the very greatest happiness that life can afford - the attachment to and the communion with (in every sense) another human being. Which is what religion generally and monotheistic religions such as Christianity especially, with its morbid erotophobic horror of the body and sexuality, tends to do. Other religions are not free of it - there's a monastic tradition within Tibetan Buddhism, of course; "Catholicism without God" as Renan put it - but nobody does fear and horror of the body and shame and guilt at fleshy, fleshy corporeality like Christianity. If anybody desires evidence for this statement, it's not far to seek: the history of Christianity and various maladapted psychiatric cases posing as saints and Church Fathers furnishes umpteen examples.

(I'm listening to 'The Mitford Girls' by Mary S Lovell - an excellent book.)

You have superb taste in books, SD

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yes, it tends to do that. The recent "John Paul II" thread refers to a relationship that the former Pope of that moniker had with a woman, which gave rise to a mention of the Catholic monk Thomas Merton and his nearly/maybe/might be/not quite relationship with a nurse, which he desperately wanted but broke off because of his attachment to his vows of (amongst other things) chastity. In other words, he put dogma and ideology ahead of what most normally-constituted people regard as the very greatest happiness that life can afford - the attachment to and the communion with (in every sense) another human being. Which is what religion generally and monotheistic religions such as Christianity especially, with its morbid erotophobic horror of the body and sexuality, tends to do. Other religions are not free of it - there's a monastic tradition within Tibetan Buddhism, of course; "Catholicism without God" as Renan put it - but nobody does fear and horror of the body and shame and guilt at fleshy, fleshy corporeality like Christianity. If anybody desires evidence for this statement, it's not far to seek: the history of Christianity and various maladapted psychiatric cases posing as saints and Church Fathers furnishes umpteen examples.

Crikey, it's enough to give one eructations and borborygmi !

[Shaker]

Crikey, it's enough to give one eructations and borborygmi !

Some sort of bilious attack, certainly. Christianity is like that.

[SusanDoris]

 Thank you, Shaker!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some sort of bilious attack, certainly. Christianity is like that.

I'd be interested in why Merton did what he did rather than wittering on about what ''normally constituted people do''
That just makes you sound like ''Angry from Leicester''.

[Shaker]

I'd be interested in why Merton did what he did rather than wittering on about what ''normally constituted people do''

He had a belief system which he thought meant attachment to his own mental picture of Jesus and his supposed wants, wishes and desires (as filtered through two thousand years of celibate virgin men - at least in principle rather than actuality, hypocrisy being what it is in religion, i.e. rife), with no more evidence for said beliefs than they ever had (i.e. zero), mattered more than making two people happy in life. Basically. As I said in the relevant thread, thus increasing the sum total of human unhappiness in the world to the tune of two people for the sake of absolutely nothing whatsoever at all.

That just makes you sound like ''Angry from Leicester''.

Yes, it does, since I am.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

He had a belief system which he thought meant attachment to his own inidvidual mental picture of Jesus and his supposed wants, wishes and desires as filtered through two thousand years of celibate virgins with no more evidence than him mattered more than making two people happy in life. Basically. Yes, it does, since I am.

Although I find elements of sadness about Merton's dilemma, it was his life.
Unlike you I have no desire to order anybody to be a normally constituted person particularly if you and your ilk are examples of it. That and your desire to control language smack a bit of Stalinism.

I would never have for example Susan Doris abandon her seeming free will decision to laugh dutifully only at comic material from antitheists even though Normally constituted people of any religious persuasion are free to occasionally find humour in any antitheist comic and even Milton Jones.

[Shaker]

Although I find elements of sadness about Merton's dilemma, it was his life.

Unfortunately for him and M., it wasn't - it was Catholicism's life, because it was Catholicism to which he had given over his life and which swung the decision away from a happy life with the woman he loved and who loved him. A free decision is made without external compulsion or coercion in one direction or another; it wasn't Merton's decision, it was the Vatican's.

Unlike you I have no desire to order anybody to be a normally constituted person particularly if you and your ilk are examples of it. That and your desire to control language smack a bit of Stalinism.

I have no desire to control language. I do however like clarity and precision, so that language does its intended job (i.e. is an efficient tool of clear communication of concepts) and doesn't turn into blancmange.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I have no desire to control language.

Except the word pantheism obviously.

All quiet on the pantheism thread I see

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Unfortunately for him and M., it wasn't - it was Catholicism's life, because it was Catholicism to which he had given over his life and which swing the decision away from a happy life with the woman he loved and who loved him. A free decision is made without external compulsion or coercion in one direction or another; it wasn't Merton's decision, it was the Vatican's.

I suppose your a fan of the Thorn Birds as well.

[Shaker]

Except the word pantheism obviously.

No, the definition of pantheism is really quite clear. So much so that I included several definitions of same from various sources in the OP of the relevant thread.

All quiet on the pantheism thread I see

Thank goodness. I suspect people are waiting to see if you rock up yet again.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, the definition of pantheism is really quite clear. So much so that I included several definitions of same from various sources in the OP of the relevant thread.
Thank goodness. I suspect people are waiting to see if you rock up yet again.

I'm not saving it again.

[Rhiannon]

I'm not saving it again.

No Vlad, you do the opposite of that.

[Jack Knave]

If this saying of Jesus is anything to go by, it is possibly a spiritual abode rather than physical.
"Your body is made from earthly elements but if you lose your valuable inner essence how will you replenish it? Then of what good are you but to be returned to the earth to be trodden under foot."

Where did jesus say this?

On the loo!!! 

[ekim]

If this saying of Jesus is anything to go by, it is possibly a spiritual abode rather than physical.
"Your body is made from earthly elements but if you lose your valuable inner essence how will you replenish it? Then of what good are you but to be returned to the earth to be trodden under foot."
On the loo!!! 

You're thinking of pan-theism. 

[Leonard James]

You're thinking of pan-theism. 

 

[Enki]

You're thinking of pan-theism. 

I think he might have been quite flushed when he said it.

[Leonard James]

I think he might have been quite flushed when he said it.

Oh gawd, pack it in, I've been reprimanded for laughing to myself!

[Jack Knave]

You're thinking of pan-theism. 

Oh sorry, wrong thread.