Bestiality in Germany

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Humans are animals, according to Rose I don"t need permission. To kill them to eat, so I can kill Rose and eat her.

Don't try eating me...........I won't agree with you.

[Bubbles]

Humans are animals, according to Rose I don"t need permission. To kill them to eat, so I can kill Rose and eat her.

No, but some unfortunate people have had to choose in dire circumstances to eat the dead.

We are animals too.

In desperate situations people do desperate things.

[Shaker]

Don't try eating me...........I won't agree with you.

Animals tend not to agree with it either, but as C. S. Lewis said in a rare moment of correctness, it only comes down to might being right - which as NS just hinted leaves him free to eat Rose if he can.

[Bubbles]

It has nothing to do with asking permission.

We are animals, lions are animals, neither need to ask permission.

If you were stranded on a desert island or away from civilisation and things like cultivated crops, vegans and a lot of vegetarians wouldn't survive.

Meat is a high energy resource.

You wouldn't be able to pick enough wild berries and leaves.

The modern world allows us to be vegetarians.

Eskimos couldn't be vegetarian even if they wanted to be, not if they only had access to what they could pick.

[Rhiannon]

Exactly, Rose. The modern Western world offers us a choice. We aren't desperate. So why eat meat?

[Bubbles]

Exactly, Rose. The modern Western world offers us a choice. We aren't desperate. So why eat meat?

Well, in my opinion it's better for you to have a diet that includes meat, fish, eggs and dairy.

But we are drifting.

My point was jeremy P 's point was irrelevant because the comparison isn't based on asking permission.

I don't see his point as valid.

 I don't think it is about asking permission, but about how you treat a living feeling animal.

Being omnivores I feel it is natural for us to eat some meat, I don't feel it is appropriate to make another living feeling animal suffer outside this.

[Shaker]

Exactly, Rose. The modern Western world offers us a choice. We aren't desperate. So why eat meat?

For the sake of completeness, the ancient Eastern one did too.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Animals tend not to agree with it either, but as C. S. Lewis said in a rare moment of correctness, it only comes down to might being right - which as NS just hinted leaves him free to eat Rose if he can.

I'm sure Mr P.Lod would have something to say about that.

I knew this forum would revert to cannibalism.

[Nearly Sane]

No, but some unfortunate people have had to choose in dire circumstances to eat the dead.

We are animals too.

In desperate situations people do desperate things.

You didn't say anything about desperate situations, I am just hungry. Don't worry I will kill you humanely.

[Sriram]

No, but some unfortunate people have had to choose in dire circumstances to eat the dead.

We are animals too.

In desperate situations people do desperate things.

Rose,

You keep saying 'we are animals' and so we can eat them without their consent. In that case, since we are animals...having sex with them should not also require consent.  Or if you believe sex requires consent....eating them also requires consent without which we are guilty of murder or even cannibalism.

Secondly...having sex with animals cannot be taken as torture. Where is the torture if a woman....er... accepts a horse or dog?  If anything, it is the woman who suffers IMO.    Ugh!!

This is a repulsive subject IMO...but requires discussion. It is surprising many countries and US states have not banned it.

As I have mentioned in some other threads, continuing to think of ourselves as animals has many regressive implications. This is only one of them.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Bubbles]

Rose,

You keep saying 'we are animals' and so we can eat them without their consent. In that case, since we are animals...having sex with them should not also require consent.  Or if you believe sex requires consent....eating them also requires consent without which we are guilty of murder or even cannibalism.

Secondly...having sex with animals cannot be taken as torture. Where is the torture if a woman....er... accepts a horse or dog?  If anything, it is the woman who suffers IMO.    Ugh!!

This is a repulsive subject IMO...but requires discussion. It is surprising many countries and US states have not banned it.

As I have mentioned in some other threads, continuing to think of ourselves as animals has many regressive implications. This is only one of them.

Cheers.

Sriram

No I don't agree.

Killing an animal humanely to eat it's flesh is not the same thing as degrading it for pleasure.

Bestiality is degrading an animal for pleasure.

You are not degrading an animal by just by killing it to eat it.

It's about a living animal suffering.

I think hunting is a natural human trait, but you could argue that hunting in our modern world when you are not planning to eat it, falls under the same category as bestiality because you are tormenting a live creature for pleasure.

Basically if you are going to kill something purely to eat it its not the same thing as degrading and tormenting it.

I don't see hunting that way, but fox hunting for example could be classed under the same thing because it is causing an animal distress for pleasure.

It boils down to respect for the animal.

IMO It is ok to kill humanely with as less suffering as possible for something you are going to eat.

It is not ok to torment or cause something distress by doing something to it, purely for pleasure.

Some other things that spring to mind are badger baiting and cock fighting.

It's just where I draw a line I suppose.

[Sriram]

Rose....... I think you are just trying to justify something you enjoy doing (eating meat) as against something you don't do (sex with animals).

It is an inconsistent argument.

[Bubbles]

Rose....... I think you are just trying to justify something you enjoy doing (eating meat) as against something you don't do (sex with animals).

It is an inconsistent argument.

No it isn't.

It's more inconsistent to pretend you are not ultimately existing by eating other living things.

Plants are living things.

We,  as just another form of life on this planet survive by consuming other forms of life.

We are all predators of one sort or another.

We all eat things that are alive and can't be asked first.

[Shaker]

No it isn't.

It's more inconsistent to pretend you are not ultimately existing by eating other living things.

Plants are living things.

Nobody pretends that living things don't exist by eating other living things.

The difference is that there are sentient living things and non-sentient living things. A non-sentient living thing - a lettuce, for example - isn't harmed by being eaten s there's nothing to be harmed. It has no awareness, no capacity to feel pain, no life to go well or badly, no interests in one state of affairs over another. A pig does.

[Bubbles]

Nobody pretends that living things don't exist by eating other living things.

The difference is that there are sentient living things and non-sentient living things. A non-sentient living thing - a lettuce, for example - isn't harmed by being eaten s there's nothing to be harmed. It has no awareness, no capacity to feel pain, no life to go well or badly, no interests in one state of affairs over another. A pig does.

Not necessarily

According to researchers at the Institute for Applied Physics at the University of Bonn in Germany, plants release gases that are the equivalent of crying out in pain. Using a laser-powered microphone, researchers have picked up sound waves produced by plants releasing gases when cut or injured. Although not audible to the human ear, the secret voices of plants have revealed that cucumbers scream when they are sick, and flowers whine when their leaves are cut [source: Deutsche Welle].


http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/botany/plants-feel-pain.htm

You might want to believe that, but science is starting to show plants are not just fodder.

[Sriram]

Vegetables, fruits and leaves are normally given off by the plants and trees... and no life is take in most cases.  The pulp of the fruits and veggies are eaten and the seeds are thrown back for germination.

Its only in some cases that the roots or stem of the plants are eaten.

[Shaker]

No I don't agree.

Killing an animal humanely to eat it's flesh is not the same thing as degrading it for pleasure.

Bestiality is degrading an animal for pleasure.

You are not degrading an animal by just by killing it to eat it.

You evidently haven't seen what goes on in slaughterhouses

[Rhiannon]

And that is without addressing the hypocrisy of eating pig but not dog or cat. In terms of intelligence there's little difference.

[Bubbles]

You evidently haven't seen what goes on in slaughterhouses

No I haven't,  but was brought up with animals and my parents slaughtered their own chickens, ducks, geese and rabbits for food.

[Bubbles]

And that is without addressing the hypocrisy of eating pig but not dog or cat. In terms of intelligence there's little difference.

Not really.

People who keep certain animals as pets don't like the idea of eating them.

Hence some countries do eat dogs, and in Europe they eat horsemeat.

We don't like it because in the uk we have culturally given those animals the status of pets.

In India they would be just as horrified at us eating cow, that's because culturally it has the same status as a pet ( as in not to be eaten).

It just depends where you have been brought up.

If you were brought up in a country that ate dog or horse ...... It would just be another sort of meat.

It's not hypocritical, it's how you are culturally brought up.

It's like insects, or snails, some places eat them others don't, it's what is normal for where you are.

It horrifies me that the Japanese eat dolphin because they are even brighter, but that's because eating dolphin isn't in British culture.

 

[Rhiannon]

Not really.

People who keep certain animals as pets don't like the idea of eating them.

Hence some countries do eat dogs, and in Europe they eat horsemeat.

We don't like it because in the uk we have culturally given those animals the status of pets.

In India they would be just as horrified at us eating cow, that's because culturally it has the same status as a pet ( as in not to be eaten).

It just depends where you have been brought up.

If you were brought up in a country that ate dog or horse ...... It would just be another sort of meat.

It's not hypocritical, it's how you are culturally brought up.

It's like insects, or snails, some places eat them others don't, it's what is normal for where you are.

That's an excuse. It's culturally normal in this country to eat meat yet people choose not to. If you eat pig there's no reason not to eat dog.

[Bubbles]

That's an excuse. It's culturally normal in this country to eat meat yet people choose not to. If you eat pig there's no reason not to eat dog.

No there isn't,  and about 11 countries still do.

But our own culture here determines what we consider edible, not all of it is based on intelligence of the eaten.

We don't tend to eat garden snails either or frog legs, but the French do.

Goat has only become more common because there is an ethnic demand for it.
We don't tend to eat horse either.

I don't have any reason not to eat dog, other than culturally I am partly conditioned not to.

Same with horse.

However if I went to France ( for example) I could well be served up meat outside my cultural menu.

I've eaten kangaroo, bison, and a few other things.

I don't eat some meats because I don't fancy it, rat/hamster/squirrel for example.

( although if they damage any more of my trees, barbecued Squirrel and muntjac just might go on the menu)

But you are right, there is no reason for me not to eat horse should I go to France , other than my culture that tells me a horse isn't something to be eaten.

[Rhiannon]

No there isn't,  and about 11 countries still do.

But our own culture here determines what we consider edible, not all of it is based on intelligence of the eaten.

We don't tend to eat garden snails either or frog legs, but the French do.

Goat has only become more common because there is an ethnic demand for it.
We don't tend to eat horse either.

I don't have any reason not to eat dog, other than culturally I am partly conditioned not to.

Same with horse.

However if I went to France ( for example) I could well be served up meat outside my cultural menu.

I've eaten kangaroo, bison, and a few other things.

I don't eat some meats because I don't fancy it, rat for example.

What happens in other countries isn't relevant to your choices. Culturally I was raised to eat meat but I don't. Similarly you could choose to do things differently. Hiding behind 'it's normal' doesn't address the fact that pigs and dogs are of a similar intelligence.

[Bubbles]

The things I personally feel are too intelligent to be eaten are, apes, dolphin, whales, dogs, cats, horses.

But most of these are things I have absorbed from the society around me, I can see other cultures have different lists which don't include horses, whales and dolphins.

I suppose society and upbringing shapes how you regard animals and if they are edible, in part.

That's not hypocrisy.

It's just a part of culture, I doubt if people in Korea think of the dog in the same way we do.

Just like in France the horse comes under their list of edibles.

[Bubbles]

What happens in other countries isn't relevant to your choices. Culturally I was raised to eat meat but I don't. Similarly you could choose to do things differently. Hiding behind 'it's normal' doesn't address the fact that pigs and dogs are of a similar intelligence.

I could, but because I see things differently to you, I don't.

Anyway vegetarianism is just as cultural in the uk as eating meat.

I'm not hiding behind its normal merely pointing out some meats are more normal in some cultures than others, and people do eat dog, just not in the uk.

I don't think pigs and dogs do have a similar intelligence. A dog has been used to do various jobs because of its usefulness and intelligence.

I've not seen any guide pigs, or police pigs lately 

Horses are different, you have the mounted police.

Horses and dogs perform work, pigs don't.

That's because they are not comparable, and babe was just a movie.

Dogs, cats, horses are working animals.

Pigs arn't.

In the uk we don't tend to eat " working" animals.

A cats job was to be a good ratter around the barns, less a working animal and they tended to get shot if too numerous.

In the uk we tend to respect animals that " work"  in as much we don't tend to put them on a menu.

Pigs don't , therefore we eat them.