Birtplace and Culture Determine Religious Beliefs

[Khatru]

Believers seem to be so sure that their beliefs are correct while all the other belief systems are wrong.  However, that certainty invariably comes down to an accident of birth.

People born in Saudi Arabia will tell us how great the Quran is. Whereas it's odds-on that those born in India will be singing the praises of Shiva.

There's no getting away from the fact, that for the vast majority of believers, parentage,culture and country of birth dictate just what their belief is.

[Bubbles]

Believers seem to be so sure that their beliefs are correct while all the other belief systems are wrong.  However, that certainty invariably comes down to an accident of birth.

People born in Saudi Arabia will tell us how great the Quran is. Whereas it's odds-on that those born in India will be singing the praises of Shiva.

There's no getting away from the fact, that for the vast majority of believers, parentage,culture and country of birth dictate just what their belief is.

Yes, that's right!

I once asked a vicar ( he was a believer) if he was born elsewhere whether he would have believed as he does.

He said probably not, but he hoped he would have believed in Christianity once he discovered it.

So I think quite a few believers realise that had they been born in another culture their beliefs would have been different.

Even within Christianity beliefs vary based on culture and location.

[Sriram]

Believers seem to be so sure that their beliefs are correct while all the other belief systems are wrong.  However, that certainty invariably comes down to an accident of birth.

People born in Saudi Arabia will tell us how great the Quran is. Whereas it's odds-on that those born in India will be singing the praises of Shiva.

There's no getting away from the fact, that for the vast majority of believers, parentage,culture and country of birth dictate just what their belief is.

This is obviously true. But regardless of that, most humans have today developed values that are almost identical.  So...whatever forces have been working to bring together humanity have managed to do a good job!

[Bubbles]

This is obviously true. But regardless of that, most humans have today developed values that are almost identical.  So...whatever forces have been working to bring together humanity have managed to do a good job!

Well yes, almost identical until I eat a steak n kidney pie 😉

( which contains cow)
🌹

Not everywhere shares more than basic values, some not even that. I think we have a tendency to assume others share our values, but do they?

The forces haven't done that good a job while half the world seems to be stoning or beheading the other half.

How many values do we share with Isis for example? Or a culture where men have more than one wife?

The forces don't seem to be doing that well, IMO.

If you want to see the difference in values just join one of those groups on Facebook and see the values expressed on there, it's international.

It makes me realise how different our values can actually be, and how much my values are a product of how I was brought up, and my location.

I want to say we share a common humanity, around the world, but do we?

People wouldn't get hurt like they do, if we did, surely?

[Sriram]

Do you realize how different people were just about 100-200 years ago? More so 1000-2000 years ago. Think about it.

[Bubbles]

Do you realize how different people were just about 100-200 years ago? More so 1000-2000 years ago. Think about it.

Sriram

It's too big a world to do that.

100-200 years ago in the uk they were sending children to work in factories, and in some places in the world they still are and children are no better off today.

You can only do what you are saying in some countries where they have improved their standard of living.

Some places have gone backwards.

 

[Bubbles]

Also for all I know there might have been a civilisation 2000 years ago that had better values than many modern day ones.

The past doesn't mean they were more barbaric, necessarily.

People haven't changed that much, they can still be pretty awful. ( or good )

The greatest change is in technology and our ability to communicate and gain knowledge.

We, the human animal,  hasn't changed, our setting and influences have changed.

In some places.

I don't have Victorian attitudes because I wasn't brought up then.

It's what I'm subjected to that has changed, I haven't physically changed or evolved.

Someone from 2000+ years ago, brought up in my setting, would not be different to any other 21st century person.

Put any of us back to grow up 2000 years ago, and we'd blend in, no difference.

[floo]

I think culture has quite a lot to do with belief, but not everything.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Chances are that children born to godless atheists, will probably grow up to be godless. Floo doesn't count cause she sent her girls to Sunday school, as every good agnostic parent should do.

[floo]

Chances are that children born to godless atheists, will probably grow up to be godless. Floo doesn't count cause she sent her girls to Sunday school, as every good agnostic parent should do.

WRONG! We didn't send our kids to church or Sunday School. My husband and I let them decide for themselves about religion, even though we were unbelievers. They opted to attend, it was their choice! My husband and I wished our parents had given us the choice instead of forcing it on us!

[Brownie]

I agree wholeheartedly with the opening post.

Rose, I have often wondered about women having more than one husband at the same time, polyandry or polyamory (each well off financially of course and not all living under the same roof);  a woman could have one husband for stability, one for extravagant evenings out and occasional weekends away, and the other for....well I've forgotten, but it was something interesting.

[ippy]

Chances are that children born to godless atheists, will probably grow up to be godless. Floo doesn't count cause she sent her girls to Sunday school, as every good agnostic parent should do.

We're all godless Woody, get used to it.

ippy

[Hope]

Believers seem to be so sure that their beliefs are correct while all the other belief systems are wrong.  However, that certainty invariably comes down to an accident of birth.

People born in Saudi Arabia will tell us how great the Quran is. Whereas it's odds-on that those born in India will be singing the praises of Shiva.

There's no getting away from the fact, that for the vast majority of believers, parentage,culture and country of birth dictate just what their belief is.

Is that why there are more Christians in China or India than there are in somewhere like the UK?

[Hope]

This is obviously true. But regardless of that, most humans have today developed values that are almost identical.  So...whatever forces have been working to bring together humanity have managed to do a good job!

Having lived an worked outside of the UK for about 1/6th of my life, I'm not sure that I'd go as far as that, Sri.  Values in the sub-continent remain very dfferent to values in the West, or the Far East.

[Hope]

We, the human animal,  hasn't changed, our setting and influences have changed.

I'm not so sure.  1st Century Judaism placed a huge emphasis on the family and its centrality to society: it is why Jesus spoke out against the people (especially the leaders) who flt that they could avoid paying to support their elders by arguing that they were giving that money to the God.

Whilst I would agree that the West has made huge strides forward in some aspects of life (eg education and human rights), I believe that it has made huge strides backwards in other areas, such as human rights and our treatment of the elderly.

[Shaker]

Whilst I would agree that the West has made huge strides forward in some aspects of life (eg education and human rights), I believe that it has made huge strides backwards in other areas, such as human rights and our treatment of the elderly.

Have human rights gone forwards or backwards or what?

[Leonard James]

I'm not so sure.  1st Century Judaism placed a huge emphasis on the family and its centrality to society: it is why Jesus spoke out against the people (especially the leaders) who flt that they could avoid paying to support their elders by arguing that they were giving that money to the God.

Whilst I would agree that the West has made huge strides forward in some aspects of life (eg education and human rights), I believe that it has made huge strides backwards in other areas, such as human rights and our treatment of the elderly.

Progress is usually achieved by forward and backward steps, and as long as the forward ones overreach the backward, we will progress.

What we still need to realise is that our 'family' consists of the whole human race, not numerous groups squabbling among themselves about who is right or wrong.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Progress is usually achieved by forward and backward steps, and as long as the forward ones overreach the backward, we will progress.

What we still need to realise is that our 'family' consists of the whole human race, not numerous groups squabbling among themselves about who is right or wrong.

The philosopher John gray thinks progress is an illusion of much secular humanism based on Christian thinking.

He cites Mans appalling attitude to nature and the environment

[torridon]

This is obviously true. But regardless of that, most humans have today developed values that are almost identical.  So...whatever forces have been working to bring together humanity have managed to do a good job!

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, to a biologist, humans are remarkable for their homogeneity, it seems we have a very narrow gene pool.  So our separation over time and geography has led to a diversity of cultures, but underlying human nature is fairly homogenous, hence today we see a diversity of superficial beliefs and practices but a commonality of underlying values.

[Sriram]

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, to a biologist, humans are remarkable for their homogeneity, it seems we have a very narrow gene pool.  So our separation over time and geography has led to a diversity of cultures, but underlying human nature is fairly homogenous, hence today we see a diversity of superficial beliefs and practices but a commonality of underlying values.

Yes...but our genes seem to get influenced remarkably by our environment.  People have been so much separated geographically  that they developed different cultures and different sense of identity. Geography, language, race and physical proximity are the major factors that probably kept people together.

Religions are the first and most powerful institution that broke these natural barriers and brought about a sense of identity removed from the above  factors. Even today...religions bind people together with a sense of unity across the world.

Side by side a secular philosophy/spirituality is also developing that is making people more tolerant and less suspicious of other religions. This will lead to a greater integration among people of different religions in the days to come.

Its working out quite well, as I see it.

 

[Leonard James]

The philosopher John gray thinks progress is an illusion of much secular humanism based on Christian thinking.

He cites Mans appalling attitude to nature and the environment

Well, at last we seem to be waking up to the damage we are doing.

[Hope]

Have human rights gone forwards or backwards or what?

I think they've gone forwards in some ways, and backwards in others.  For instance, where does the UNDHR talk about the idea that someone can be accused of a hate crime, on the grounds that someone else finds their opinions offensive?

Where, in the UNDHR, is the idea that privacy trumps public need to know mentioned?

Where is the way in which both communism and capitalism (perhaps even capitunism  ) believe that they can prioritise the benefits of individuals and groups over those of others mentioned in the UNDHR?

[Hope]

...  but a commonality of underlying values.

Including some pretty horrendous ones. Greed, corruption, selfishness, violence, xenophobia - all spring to mind.

[Hope]

What we still need to realise is that our 'family' consists of the whole human race, not numerous groups squabbling among themselves about who is right or wrong.

This is only partly true, Len.  Whilst the whole human race is very important, there are areas of that whole for which we - as individuals and societies - have especial responsibilities.  It is understandable that some developing antions regard the West as hypocritical when they see some of the ways we treat our own citizens whilst telling them how to treat their citizens.

[Leonard James]

This is only partly true, Len.  Whilst the whole human race is very important, there are areas of that whole for which we - as individuals and societies - have especial responsibilities.  It is understandable that some developing antions regard the West as hypocritical when they see some of the ways we treat our own citizens whilst telling them how to treat their citizens.

And they are right!

Nevertheless, until everyone has the sense to see that we are all brother humans, we will get nowhere.