The Ten Commandments

[Khatru]

I've heard Christians say that, having been superceded by the NT, the OT is redundant and its laws, rules and edicts are no longer applicable.

Apparently this is due to God/Jesus and some kind of sado-masochistic death/blood fixation.

Anyway. If, as I'm told, the OT laws are old hat, then what of the Ten Commandments?  Have they also expired?

Before answering that question, can someone please confirm which list of Ten Commandments is the relevant list?  The list from Exodus 20 or the list from Exodus 34?

[2Corrie]

If you genuinely seek the answer to this then you could study  Romans 7 and Galatians 3 xxx

[Khatru]

If you genuinely seek the answer to this then you could study  Romans 7 and Galatians 3 xxx

So, if you're a true believer the twenty commandments are null and void.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Christ said, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven..."   Matthew 5:17

Oh and about your failed contradiction, you seem unable to grasp that the second time Moses went up the mountain, was because the people had turned to paganism and in anger he smashed the first list. Well every time I put up a list, by the time I go to get what's on it, I've added and taken away. Yup, God had some more things for Moses and the people after their turn to paganism.

[jeremyp]

Well every time I put up a list, by the time I go to get what's on it, I've added and taken away. Yup, God had some more things for Moses and the people after their turn to paganism.

So God got the list wrong the first time.

[Alan Burns]

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

[Shaker]

We're back on the "Bold type = right" roundabout again, kids!

[Khatru]

Christ said, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven..."   Matthew 5:17

So, you can still break the commandments and make it into heaven?

What about the "Honour thy father and mother" commandment? What if you father is Josef Fritzl? I'm sure you remember him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

Do you honestly believe that Fritzl's daughters should still honour that man?  If you do then your sense of morality, is pretty degenerate.

Oh and about your failed contradiction, you seem unable to grasp that the second time Moses went up the mountain, was because the people had turned to paganism and in anger he smashed the first list. Well every time I put up a list, by the time I go to get what's on it, I've added and taken away. Yup, God had some more things for Moses and the people after their turn to paganism.

Looks like God got it wrong.

"The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke."

Exodus 34:1

Except that the words on this second set were different from the first.  This was despite the Lord of Hosts saying he would write the same words.

[Alan Burns]

We're back on the "Bold type = right" roundabout again, kids!

I feel it is fitting to highlight the word of God, to distinguish it from that of us mere mortals.

[floo]

I feel it is fitting to highlight the word of God, to distinguish it from that of us mere mortals.

Humans created the idea of a deity NOT the other way around, imo! Humans are the BIG CHEESE!

[Brownie]

I've heard Christians say that, having been superceded by the NT, the OT is redundant and its laws, rules and edicts are no longer applicable.

Apparently this is due to God/Jesus and some kind of sado-masochistic death/blood fixation.

Anyway. If, as I'm told, the OT laws are old hat, then what of the Ten Commandments?  Have they also expired?

Before answering that question, can someone please confirm which list of Ten Commandments is the relevant list?  The list from Exodus 20 or the list from Exodus 34?

I've never heard it said the ten commandments are redundant.  We are taught that the OT should be read in the light of the knowledge exponated in the NT.  Jesus added another commandment, to love one another.  The ten commandments are great, common sense too.  If we all treated others as we would like to be treated (my interpretation of 'loving one another'), there would be no problems!

[Alan Burns]

Humans created the idea of a deity  ....

The contents of this forum aptly demonstrate that the Christian God does not relate to the human ways of thinking, hence very unlikely to have been created by humans.

[Shaker]

The contents of this forum aptly demonstrate that the Christian God does not relate to the human ways of thinking, hence very unlikely to have been created by humans.

Explain?

[floo]

The contents of this forum aptly demonstrate that the Christian God does not relate to the human ways of thinking, hence very unlikely to have been created by humans.

The contents of the forum demonstrate nothing of the sort, the very opposite in fact, the Christian god is a very human fantasy, imo!

[Khatru]

I feel it is fitting to highlight the word of God, to distinguish it from that of us mere mortals.

Surely bynits very nature alone, the word of such an all powerful entity as the supreme cosmic mega being would be easily distinguishable from that of man?

[OH MY WORLD!]

Jeremy,
Not at all, my lists weren't wrong either. But the people opted to turn to paganism and there were some additions in order. God didn't get it wrong, the people did.

[Brownie]

Khatru, the ten commandments are general.  Most kids do honour their parents.  No of course they shouldn't honour a parent, like Josef Fritzl, who abuses them - though it can take a while for them not to, because children naturally think parents are right until they start to think for themselves, and abused children are brainwashed by their abuser.

Yes people who have broken commandments get to Heaven.  We've all broken commandments!  Hopefully we learn from our mistakes and resolve not to commit them again but we are likely to do something else.  Heaven is not full of people who've never done anything wrong in their lives. 

[ippy]

This sort of thread always draws the nut jobs out of the woodwork.

Sad lot all of em.

ippy

[Khatru]

Khatru, the ten commandments are general.  Most kids do honour their parents.  No of course they shouldn't honour a parent, like Josef Fritzl, who abuses them - though it can take a while for them not to, because children naturally think parents are right until they start to think for themselves, and abused children are brainwashed by their abuser.

Yes people who have broken commandments get to Heaven.  We've all broken commandments!  Hopefully we learn from our mistakes and resolve not to commit them again but we are likely to do something else.  Heaven is not full of people who've never done anything wrong in their lives.

But it's full of people who've chosen the right god to worship?

Any belief system that ranks a paedophile who has raped innocent children the same as a newborn baby drawing its first breath has a problem.  I use the term "ranked" to describe the fact that in a Christian's eyes, both newborn baby and paedophile are heading to hell unless they adopt "Christian truths"

Here's a scenario.........

Ten years down the line, our newborn baby is now a child who has fallen into the clutches of our paedophile.  He tortures and rapes her while all the time she screams for him to stop.  In the darkness of the room she is locked in, she prays to the Bible god to free her from this pain and suffering.

Sadly, no escape is forthcoming and month later, when the paedophile has tired of his captive, he explains that he is going to kill her.  Yet again, she prays to the Bible god and yet again their is no answer.  In her final, dying breath, she curses the god of the Bible.

The years roll on and our paedophile has enjoyed the company of many more children.  Now they lie buried in unmarked graves while their families pray for their childrens safe return to this god who doesn't answer.

Then in later years and on his deathbed, the paedophile sees the error of his ways and prays to the Bible god pleading for mercy and forgiveness.

Just think how when you get to heaven you can stand beside the ex-paedophile and watch that little girl scream as she burns.  What a day of rejoicing that will be, for in God's eyes she has earned her trip to hell and he has earned eternal reward.

[floo]

Any belief system that ranks a paedophile who has raped innocent children the same as a newborn baby drawing its first breath has a problem.  I use the term "ranked" to describe the fact that in a Christian's eyes, both newborn baby and paedophile are heading to hell unless they adopt "Christian truths"


The idea that good people who aren't 'saved' will go to hell, yet a paedophile who converts will go to heaven is evil!

[Brownie]

I have to make it clear that I do not believe good people, at any rate people who try their best, who are non believers, are damned.  I've said this before, non believers and those of different faiths are, imo, ''saved'', for want of a better word (it isn't a word I generally use).  I don't need anyone else to back me up on this but it is a fact that many Christians feel the same way.

[Hope]

I don't need anyone else to back me up on this but it is a fact that many Christians feel the same way.

It is true that many people believe it, but there is no specific support given for the idea in Jesus' teaching.

Interestingly, what there is in his teaching is that people who claim to be his followers aren't necessarily going to be recognised as such by him on the Day of Judgement - and the suggestion that some who such 'followers' disqualify may be recognised.

[Hope]

Any belief system that ranks a paedophile who has raped innocent children the same as a newborn baby drawing its first breath has a problem.  I use the term "ranked" to describe the fact that in a Christian's eyes, both newborn baby and paedophile are heading to hell unless they adopt "Christian truths"

Oddly enough, your premise doesn't match Jesus' teaching, Floo.  There may be those who call themselves Christians who believe this, in the same way that there are those who regard themselves as Christians who believe other things that don't match Jesus' teaching, but then there are Labour and Tory politicians who promulgate ideas that aren't generally regarded as Labour or Tory ideas.

The idea that good people who aren't 'saved' will go to hell, yet a paedophile who converts will go to heaven is evil!

You seem to miss out a rather important element of this process - Floo.  A paedophile might well be found guilty of the particular crime they had been charged with, and may well become a Christian (or Muslim, or whatever) whilst in prison, but what is that 'conversion' based on?  Is it 'If I convert everything will be wiped clean, regardless of my attitude to my crime', or 'I acknowledge that I have committed a crime and that I have been punished justly.  I am sorry for that crime and want to start over'?  To go back to previous posts I've made here and elsewhere, the important point is the Day of Judgement when we face the deity and he either acknowledges or doesn't an individual's claim to being a disciple.

[OH MY WORLD!]

"This sort of thread always draws the nut jobs out of the woodwork"

Oh how true ippy. You are here and this confirms that your statement is an absolute fact. Amazing that you actually produced a post that isn't like  staring at a blank sheet of paper.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0cZK1c0wpE

[Bubbles]

It is true that many people believe it, but there is no specific support given for the idea in Jesus' teaching.

Interestingly, what there is in his teaching is that people who claim to be his followers aren't necessarily going to be recognised as such by him on the Day of Judgement - and the suggestion that some who such 'followers' disqualify may be recognised.

I think there is

"Which of those two did the will of his father?” They said unto Him, “The first.” Jesus said unto them, “Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots go into the Kingdom of God before you."