The Ten Commandments

[Brownie]

I couldn't help thinking that maybe the harlots and publicans (what's wrong with being a publican? ), might be believers.
At the end of the day, only God can really judge a person.  We certainly can't, only their actions.

[Bubbles]

I couldn't help thinking that maybe the harlots and publicans (what's wrong with being a publican? ), might be believers.
At the end of the day, only God can really judge a person.  We certainly can't, only their actions.

 

[Khatru]

I have to make it clear that I do not believe good people, at any rate people who try their best, who are non believers, are damned.  I've said this before, non believers and those of different faiths are, imo, ''saved'', for want of a better word (it isn't a word I generally use).  I don't need anyone else to back me up on this but it is a fact that many Christians feel the same way.

Sadly there are all-too-many Christians who believe that no matter how good a life you lead, you're damned unless you accept Jesus as the son of the universal cosmic mega being.

[Brownie]

Some Khatru but they are in the minority.  We meet them on forums like this.  In everyday life we rarely come across them unless we show some interest, then it pours out. People in the UK are, generally, moderate and shy away from extremism of any kind.

[jeremyp]

Jeremy,
Not at all, my lists weren't wrong either. But the people opted to turn to paganism and there were some additions in order. God didn't get it wrong, the people did.

God gave Moses a list, then he gave Moses a different list. What explanation is there other than he got it wrong the first time?

[Bubbles]

God gave Moses a list, then he gave Moses a different list. What explanation is there other than he got it wrong the first time?

In what way do the two sets differ?

[Bubbles]

According to this link, it is only one theory that the other commandments were as a result of the golden calf.

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2252/why-are-the-ten-commandments-in-exodus-34-different

This one that they had different authors

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_Decalogue

[Shaker]

I couldn't help thinking that maybe the harlots and publicans (what's wrong with being a publican? )

What's wrong with being a harlot?

[Bubbles]

Not sure if this is true or not but I got it from the wiki link on Ten Commandments.
( my link in the post above)
"   Adultery
Originally this commandment forbade male Israelites to have sexual intercourse with the wife of another Israelite, though Israelite men were not forbidden to have sexual intercourse with the slaves belonging to their own household. Sexual intercourse between an Israelite man, even if he was married, and an unmarried or unbetrothed woman was not considered as adultery.[103] This concept of adultery stems from the economic aspect of Israelite marriage, as adultery constituted a violation of the husband's exclusive right to his wife, whereas the wife, as the husband's possession, had no such right.[104]"


Interpretation of that commandment has changed, to become more acceptable.

 

  



 

[Bubbles]

This is an odd commandment

20 You can save the life of a first-born donkey[d] by sacrificing a lamb; if you don’t, you must break the donkey’s neck. You must save every first-born son.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+34&version=CEV

That's from the second set.

( you can actually save the life of a first born donkey by not killing anything, including by not breaking its neck) 

[floo]

Oddly enough, your premise doesn't match Jesus' teaching, Floo.  There may be those who call themselves Christians who believe this, in the same way that there are those who regard themselves as Christians who believe other things that don't match Jesus' teaching, but then there are Labour and Tory politicians who promulgate ideas that aren't generally regarded as Labour or Tory ideas.
You seem to miss out a rather important element of this process - Floo.  A paedophile might well be found guilty of the particular crime they had been charged with, and may well become a Christian (or Muslim, or whatever) whilst in prison, but what is that 'conversion' based on?  Is it 'If I convert everything will be wiped clean, regardless of my attitude to my crime', or 'I acknowledge that I have committed a crime and that I have been punished justly.  I am sorry for that crime and want to start over'?  To go back to previous posts I've made here and elsewhere, the important point is the Day of Judgement when we face the deity and he either acknowledges or doesn't an individual's claim to being a disciple.

I was not referring to what Jesus was supposed to have said, which none of us know if it is accurately reported. I was referring to the way in which some extreme Christians interpret his sayings, coming up with a very unpleasant dogma indeed.

[Hope]

I was not referring to what Jesus was supposed to have said, which none of us know if it is accurately reported. I was referring to the way in which some extreme Christians interpret his sayings, coming up with a very unpleasant dogma indeed.

But you always couch the post in terms of 'Christians' without the qualifying adjective that you use above.  Sadly, this seems to be a trait of most of the board, and I include myself.

[Brownie]

Yes, there is a tendency to lump all Christians together and we're all different.  Most of us are moderate.

[Shaker]

Yes, there is a tendency to lump all Christians together and we're all different.  Most of us are moderate.

Which is good to know, but per #21 Hope seems to think that this moderation has no support in Jesus's alleged teaching.

[Rhiannon]

Moderate Christianity isn't backed up by the Bible - Evangelical Christianity is. Some Evangelicals are of a more liberal bent (Steve Chalke for example) but a problem faced by moderates when debating with others both within and without Christianity is that all they have to back up their arguments are their own thoughts and feelings, whereas the more hardline have it written down in black and white.

[Hope]

Moderate Christianity isn't backed up by the Bible - Evangelical Christianity is. Some Evangelicals are of a more liberal bent (Steve Chalke for example) but a problem faced by moderates when debating with others both within and without Christianity is that all they have to back up their arguments are their own thoughts and feelings, whereas the more hardline have it written down in black and white.

And how are you defining 'Moderate' Christianity and 'Evangelical' Christianity, Rhi?

[wigginhall]

Moderate Christianity isn't backed up by the Bible - Evangelical Christianity is. Some Evangelicals are of a more liberal bent (Steve Chalke for example) but a problem faced by moderates when debating with others both within and without Christianity is that all they have to back up their arguments are their own thoughts and feelings, whereas the more hardline have it written down in black and white.

Yes, this is interesting, since the Reformation really brought in the idea of sola scriptura, which many Protestant churches accept, i.e. that scripture is authoritative.   I suppose it leads to the question of interpretation, although you do get the idea of 'self-authentication' also in Protestantism.     There is also 'prima scriptura', which I think is more Anglican, where scripture is important, but so is tradition and experience. 

But I doubt if anyone really adheres to scripture 100%, there is always some cherry-picking. 

Incidentally, I think that in the Bible, a publican is a tax-collector.

[Shaker]

But I doubt if anyone really adheres to scripture 100%, there is always some cherry-picking.

I don't remember the title off the top of my head but a few years ago some American chap wrote a book about his experiment of trying to spend a year living according the laws of the Old Testament, insofar as he was able to within the limits of the laws of the land (which instantly knocks out shedloads). It was funny in parts, but of course in the end utter insanity.

Incidentally, I think that in the Bible, a publican is a tax-collector.

Well they're obviously a bunch of complete bastards.

No problem with harlots, though.

[Khatru]

Some Khatru but they are in the minority.  We meet them on forums like this.  In everyday life we rarely come across them unless we show some interest, then it pours out. People in the UK are, generally, moderate and shy away from extremism of any kind.

I accept that we don't have the rabid Christian fundies as found in the USA.

We may have moderate Christians but there's nothing moderate about the slaughter the Bible god has in store for humanity at some later date.  As a moderate do you have a problem with that?   

[Dicky Underpants]

I accept that we don't have the rabid Christian fundies as found in the USA.

We may have moderate Christians but there's nothing moderate about the slaughter the Bible god has in store for humanity at some later date.  As a moderate do you have a problem with that?

Ah, you should have met freeminer.

[Sassy]

I've heard Christians say that, having been superceded by the NT, the OT is redundant and its laws, rules and edicts are no longer applicable.

Which Christians...names and quotes please.

Apparently this is due to God/Jesus and some kind of sado-masochistic death/blood fixation.

Apparently not...nothing apparent about anything you have written so far. Tell me where you copied and pasted it from. LOL.

Anyway. If, as I'm told, the OT laws are old hat, then what of the Ten Commandments?  Have they also expired?

The 10 commandments are the law and teachings of the Prophets.

King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Try reading the bible... could stop you making such magnificent blunders...

Before answering that question, can someone please confirm which list of Ten Commandments is the relevant list?  The list from Exodus 20 or the list from Exodus 34?

What's the difference?

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:



36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

How about you stop asking questions which show you have no knowledge of the bible or what Christ taught and Christians believe. I think you make it all up yourself. I also think you sound very kid like. Does your mother know you post on forums?

[Leonard James]

How about you stop asking questions which show you have no knowledge of the bible or what Christ taught and Christians believe. I think you make it all up yourself.

Don't kid yourself that many other Christians agree with you about "what Christ taught" and what they believe. Ler's see how many jump to support your post. 

I also think you sound very kid like. Does your mother know you post on forums?

Is that the way Jesus taught you to behave, or did you make it up yourself?

[floo]

Don't kid yourself that many other Christians agree with you about "what Christ taught" and what they believe. Ler's see how many jump to support your post. 

Is that the way Jesus taught you to behave, or did you make it up yourself?

I get the impression not too many Christians on this forum see it the way of Sass, now there is a surprise!

[Khatru]

How about you stop asking questions which show you have no knowledge of the bible or what Christ taught and Christians believe. I think you make it all up yourself. I also think you sound very kid like. Does your mother know you post on forums?

I know your ju-ju can't stand up to questions which is why you can't handle being asked them.

Calm down, Sass.

Haven't you got a ceiling light you need to mutter to?

[Sassy]

Don't kid yourself that many other Christians agree with you about "what Christ taught" and what they believe. Ler's see how many jump to support your post. 

Is that the way Jesus taught you to behave, or did you make it up yourself?

Look how far you have fallen Leonard,

When shown to have no real knowledge of God and Christianity you stoop to such as the atheist.
But I have done nothing wrong. I have shown over and over again the truth of the bible in Christs own words.
We both know that. Good luck with your sarcasm and false accusations not even your reputation will hold up against God.,Christ and the truth of scripture.

As you come to near the end of your life, you become more distant from your own built up assurity of no God.
But the truth shows that there is a God and you are not strong enough to resist the truth that foolish self belief
will not protect you from judgment. Think on Leonard,. you may live to well over 100 but you are starting to waiver
in your unbelief. It shows...

Attacking me won't strengthen your position it will dwindle every one of your self assurance mechanisms away.