The Biblical Contradiction Thread

[Dicky Underpants]

Yet, the information we have is that Mary, his mother, seemed to hold those early events close to her heart. 

That's all part of the infancy narratives. There is little indication that she had any memory of such matters as Jesus grew up - the implication being that the infancy narratives are absolute fabrication. Much of the rest of the gospels may be pure fabrication too, but not to the extent of the infancy narratives.

[Leonard James]

Yet there are discoveries that have occurred over the years which, when researched, are found to have been prophesied by long-dead peole - be that Leonardo de Vinci or Einstein.  Even the scientific community will sometimes refer to the original references as prophetic

Those are calculated guesses based on evidence, which is quite different from prophesying.

[Hope]

Those are calculated guesses based on evidence, which is quite different from prophesying.

And what evidence did Leonardo De V have regarding helicopters and human flight, Len?  The story of Daedalus and Icarus?

[Hope]

That's all part of the infancy narratives. There is little indication that she had any memory of such matters as Jesus grew up - the implication being that the infancy narratives are absolute fabrication. Much of the rest of the gospels may be pure fabrication too, but not to the extent of the infancy narratives.

And your evidence for these claims is ... ?

[Nearly Sane]

And what evidence did Leonardo De V have regarding helicopters and human flight, Len?

And why are you lying about your use of prophesy again,? Hope?

[Hope]

Which is a different use of the word,

In what way is 'prophetic' a different use of the word?  I accept that 'prophetic' is an adjective, whilst 'prophesy' is a verb; but they are very closely related.

[Sebastian Toe]

And what evidence did Leonardo De V have regarding helicopters and human flight, Len?  The story of Daedalus and Icarus?

What evidence did he not have?

[Sassy]

Simply repeating the negative proof fallacy doesn't make it not-a-fallacy; it does however indicate that you don't know what it is.

You saying you few here and in general know more that the Millions? If you could prove anything about Christ false then we would not be here would we discussing him and Christianity?

There are different types of evidence and one might be forgiven for your ignorance that Millions of believers receiving miracles today are not evidence. But the fact remains those miracles happen in the name of Jesus to the Glory of God. There is no escaping that evidence. Truth is you don't go seek out because you cannot live with that truth. It turns what you say on it's head.


http://sidroth.org/television/tv-archives/clarice-fluitt

There are more episodes with proof of healings and Gods power. Of course you can always try and disprove it... as if...

[Leonard James]

There are more episodes with proof of healings and Gods power. Of course you can always try and disprove it... as if...

And YOU can always try to prove it! I'm afraid you will find that impossible.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

You saying you few here and in general know more that the Millions? If you could prove anything about Christ false then we would not be here would we discussing him and Christianity?

There are different types of evidence and one might be forgiven for your ignorance that Millions of believers receiving miracles today are not evidence. But the fact remains those miracles happen in the name of Jesus to the Glory of God. There is no escaping that evidence. Truth is you don't go seek out because you cannot live with that truth. It turns what you say on it's head.


http://sidroth.org/television/tv-archives/clarice-fluitt

There are more episodes with proof of healings and Gods power. Of course you can always try and disprove it... as if...

A few examples of people who have lost limbs re-growing them after being prayed for, and without receiving any medical intervention, would be interesting. Got any examples?

You would still then need a methodology to understand if this was due to non naturalists causes. Hope claims to have one so maybe he can help you there. He does however seem very reluctant to share it so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

[Gordon]

And what evidence did Leonardo De V have regarding helicopters and human flight, Len?  The story of Daedalus and Icarus?

Now you are being silly, again.

It seems to me that the best approach to LDV's ideas about flying machines would be to see his thinking and drawings as being a general extrapolation from the knowledge of his times: a form of logical guessing. He knew that some things could fly naturally, and for all we know he may well have observed the likes of kite-flying, and being a bit of a polymath he speculated about machines that would be able to support human flight - in that sense if the term 'prophetic' were used it it would mean no more than creative thinking about future innovations: some science fiction could be said to meet the same criteria, such as Jules Verne.

As used by Spud though 'prophecy' implies the very different claim of predictions of future events made in the OT being fulfilled in a specified way by, in this case, the specific person of Jesus. Leaving aside for now the problem that these prophecies and the claims of fulfillment are anecdotal and are indistinguishable from fiction, for LDV's case to be comparable then we would need to see, for instance, LDV prophecise that powered mechanical flight would occur in the first decade of the 20th century in America - but we don't, and one reason we don't is that 'prophecy', beyond logical or lucky guesses, is nonsense.   

[floo]

A few examples of people who have lost limbs re-growing them after being prayed for, and without receiving any medical intervention, would be interesting. Got any examples?

You would still then need a methodology to understand if this was due to non naturalists causes. Hope claims to have one so maybe he can help you there. He does however seem very reluctant to share it so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Apparently that charlatan healer, Benny Hinn, claimed to have been instrumental in getting amputated limbs to grow again, but of course there was no verifiable evidence to back up his claim.

[Leonard James]

And what evidence did Leonardo De V have regarding helicopters and human flight, Len?  The story of Daedalus and Icarus?

He had the evidence of how kites flew, birds flying, and the force that the air and wind generated to propel ships with sails. He was an intelligent scientist who could conceive harnessing that force.

Very different from the pin-brained gents who invented "gods" to explain what they couldn't understand.

[Hope]

As used by Spud though 'prophecy' implies the very different claim of predictions of future events made in the OT being fulfilled in a specified way by, in this case, the specific person of Jesus. Leaving aside for now the problem that these prophecies and the claims of fulfillment are anecdotal and are indistinguishable from fiction, for LDV's case to be comparable then we would need to see, for instance, LDV prophecise that powered mechanical flight would occur in the first decade of the 20th century in America - but we don't, and one reason we don't is that 'prophecy', beyond logical or lucky guesses, is nonsense.   

For LDV's case to be comparable, there would not need to be any of that detail.  Not a single Old Testament prophecy is or was time-specific.  The only thing that would be specific would have been the divine nature of the Messiah.

[Shaker]

Not a single Old Testament prophecy is or was time-specific. 

So by definition it can't be considered to be prophetic, then.

Think about it. Carefully.

[Sassy]

And YOU can always try to prove it! I'm afraid you will find that impossible.

Not at all medical doctors uncluding medical records have been on tv and shown the fact to be a fact.
But you are not interested in truth, because then you would have to repent and be guilty of your sin.
After all,. if God exists so does sin, heaven,  hell, death and Eternal life.

Taking responsibility is not something you want to do, is it?

[Spud]

For LDV's case to be comparable, there would not need to be any of that detail.  Not a single Old Testament prophecy is or was time-specific.  The only thing that would be specific would have been the divine nature of the Messiah.

Not the seventy weeks prophecy?

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Not at all medical doctors uncluding medical records have been on tv and shown the fact to be a fact.
But you are not interested in truth, because then you would have to repent and be guilty of your sin.
After all,. if God exists so does sin, heaven,  hell, death and Eternal life.

Taking responsibility is not something you want to do, is it?

Well don't be shy. Why don't you see if you can pray a few limbs back onto people that have lost them?

[jeremyp]

And what evidence did Leonardo De V have regarding helicopters and human flight, Len?  The story of Daedalus and Icarus?

What evidence do you have that Leonardo understood the principles of flight? His man powered flying machine would never have worked and it was clear that he was merely copying what he observed in birds.

[jeremyp]

The only thing that would be specific would have been the divine nature of the Messiah.

Except that the Messiah was not prophesied to be divine.

[Brownie]

Indeed, many Jews believe  "mashiach" does not mean "savior".

[Brownie]

Indeed, many Jews believe  "mashiach" does not mean "saviour".

[jeremyp]

Indeed, many Jews believe  "mashiach" does not mean "savior".

It means "anointed one". i.e. a king that is anointed with oil. In that respect, King David was a messiah.

[wigginhall]

In fact, I thought that Jews have always been hostile to the idea that the messiah is divine.   Some of them won't use the word 'messiah', as they see it as corrupted by Christian views.   The messiah is human, possibly a military leader, but definitely not divine.  In fact, for Jews this is an absurdity, and contradictory to monotheism.

[Brownie]

You are absolute right wigginhall - except for those who believe the Mashiach is Menaḥem Mendel Schneersohn.